History, geopolitics, social issues. Peels apples with scalpels. Quiet civil conversations. Mostly somewhere in the moderate middle. Aspie. Mute button user.
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Some of you may wonder about the name of this profile - Chamberlain's Ghost. Just briefly, when this war started in early 2022, I strongly expressed the view that Ukraine should seek a settlement with Russia as soon as possible. This was long before we all learned about the abortive Istanbul negotiations. For this I was pilloried by friend, family, acquaintance and stranger alike. I was labelled 'Putin's shill', 'Munich appeaser', 'Neville Chamberlain' and and many other things besides. But I was right then and I am still right now. The only solution to this war for Ukraine was and still is a negotiated peace. The only difference now from then is that now the terms will be worse, many people have died and a great deal of destruction has been done. This was, in the greater sense of matters, an avoidable war. People did not need to die and a country did not need to be wrecked. But in substance ideology preceded pragmatism.
Well, Magyar has publicly told Merz that he's not going to give in to Merz's 'blackmail' (see my original post below ⬇️). Watch Merz's reaction.
Magyar (in the Q&A portion, responding to a question about Merz’s letter and linking Ukraine support to the EU budget):
"Thank you very much for the question. I would like to approach this question in a broader context and explain that this is not only about supporting Ukraine; rather, the individual member states each make different contributions to the European security system, depending on their financial framework, level of preparedness, and geopolitical circumstances.
For years, since the beginning of the migration crisis, Hungary has made a very large contribution by protecting the southern border of the EU — not only in human terms but also logistically. There are also police tasks here that are very important, and we have never received support or recognition from the European Union for this. This has cost several billion euros in recent years, yet Hungary has to pay a fine of one million euros every day. Protecting the external borders really costs a lot of money, and because of a ruling by the European Court of Justice we have to pay fines here. I therefore very much hope that a solution can be found as quickly as possible in the negotiations with the Hungarian government so that we can continue to protect Europe and the European external borders without having to pay these millions.
Europe plays a very active role in the Western Balkans, in Kosovo, in Bosnia-Herzegovina. European security must be defended not only — the “only” in quotation marks — in Ukraine; because, as I said, where Europe is not present, others are present. That is why we support the Bundeswehr in several places, Hungary fulfils its obligations on the eastern borders, and we also support the Baltic states with air defence. We have offered support earlier, and we continue to contribute to these efforts now.
I do not want to list all instances here, but what contribution does Hungary make? We have taken in several thousand people — children, refugees from Ukraine; my family has also taken in refugees from Kyiv. I was personally in Kyiv in 2024 when Putin bombed the large children’s hospital, and I brought donations from Hungarians there. We constantly provide humanitarian and further aid to Ukraine, and we are happy to continue making this contribution. I am sure both sides recognise this. We know that our inheritance is not easy, but we do what we can.
I would like to note here diplomatically and with all due respect as Hungarian Prime Minister: I do not necessarily consider it the right direction to couple the European budget — that is, the seven-year budget, which ultimately concerns the European Union, Hungarian, German and French farmers and students, SMEs and their development and support — with other matters. I do not see this as blackmail — I do not want to use that word; because of course everything is connected with everything — but I am not sure whether this conveys the right message.
We will sit at the negotiating table, and as the Chancellor has already said, we have spoken about this quite openly. Even when this matter was raised to our surprise in Brussels, we presented our arguments there and justified our position. For Hungary it is not possible for us to take on loans in the billions for these matters. We have already spoken about the deficit that we inherited from the previous government and that we must reduce.
In this sense, this is not permissible for us for domestic political reasons, but we will continue to negotiate in Berlin, in Dublin and in Brussels, and we will find a solution for the EU budget.
Thank you very much."
FT reports that Europe's most unpopular leader is now putting a gun to the EU's head.
German Chancellor Friedrich Merz has told European Council President António Costa that Germany will withhold approval for the EU’s next multiannual budget unless every member state signs up to ongoing financial support for Ukraine from 2027 onward. In a letter obtained by the Financial Times, Merz ties Berlin’s consent for the 2028-2034 spending framework to a binding pledge from all capitals that they will help close Kyiv’s projected €70 billion funding shortfall next year.
“A collective commitment that all of us, without exception, will contribute fairly to closing [Ukraine’s financing] gap is an essential prerequisite for resolving this issue and for discussing any further matters, particularly those with financial implications,” Merz wrote. The warning is timed for an informal meeting of EU leaders in Dublin this Thursday and Friday, where the chancellor has insisted the Ukrainian shortfall must be settled.
EU leaders approved a €90 billion loan package for Ukraine last December, yet Russian military pressure has left Kyiv stating it still requires an additional €70 billion in 2026. Brussels has promised to cover roughly two-thirds of that amount (around €45 billion) and the Commission is examining further joint borrowing as one possible route, aiming for a deal before year-end.
Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria and the Czech Republic have already indicated they will not join any new round of contributions. The first three of those countries previously secured an exemption from interest payments on the existing €90 billion loan. Merz wrote that “we must then find a solution supported by all Member States that ensures a sound and multiannual financing perspective for Ukraine from 2028 onwards,” covering both fresh aid and debt-service costs.
Separately, French far-right leader Marine Le Pen, currently ahead in polls for next April’s presidential election, has said that a government under her would limit support for Ukraine to operational help and troop training only. The financing talks coincide with already difficult bargaining over the post-2027 EU budget. Germany is the largest net payer into the common budget, while the four reluctant states are net recipients. By leveraging that position, Merz is attempting to lock in Ukrainian funding both for next year and for the longer term. National elections still ahead in Italy and Poland are expected to make unanimous agreement harder still.
Berlin is also pushing for future Ukraine-related decisions to be taken by qualified majority rather than unanimity, precisely to prevent single-country vetoes. A German government official told the FT: “Ukraine’s financial needs need to be resolved in the framework of the next [EU budget]. Financial support for Ukraine of all EU member states is essential in order to successfully complete [the EU budget negotiations].”
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Trump's massive new ballroom not only makes the White House look somewhat insignificant but it's design is totally out of keeping with it. Not to be funny, but however practical it may be, it's a real eyesore. Maybe it should be dubbed "The MAGA Mausoleum".
I see ex-NATO Chief Rasmussen is urging the deployment of European troops in Ukraine for rear area duties.
It's certainly one way to convert a regional war into a pan-European war. Is he perhaps unaware that the Russians have explicitly stated that any such troops will immediately be targeted?
"Several months ago, I could go to multiple companies based in the U.S. and buy high quality images of the Middle East. But for much of this year, here’s what we’ve seen: a blackout. The U.S. government is pressuring private companies to censor satellite imagery. And that limits the public’s view of what’s happening in some of the most critical parts of the world."
The View From Space the U.S. Government Doesn’t Want You to See nytimes.com/2026/11/11/opini…
It's hard to fully gauge matters at this stage but I think of the fact that sometimes during war political objectives may expand. When I look at the totality of how matters are now developing, it seems to be beyond question that Russian political objectives - or perhaps they might be better phrased as aspirations - arising from the Ukraine war now include an adjustment to or revision of, the European security architecture. The Russians may be fortified in their aspirations if they can indeed place Ukraine in extremis. There is justifiable fear that they may do so by totally destroying Ukrainian energy infrastructure, bringing the entire state to its knees - or perhaps by other means over time. Should such circumstances arise, Europe may be faced with a very difficult choice indeed - to commit directly to the war (which for most is politically and financially untenable), to stand by and watch Ukraine in her agony (also politically untenable) or to engage with Russian requirements around the European security architecture. Of the options available, the last would seem to be the least unpalatable - and the Russians may well be thinking accordingly. Should the Russians succeed in this and in achieving the uplifting of sanctions and the subsequent relative normalisation of relations, they will have achieved a glittering prize that well justifies the difficulties of the war. But the theory is one thing; the practical hurdles are enormous.
Medinsky on the Abu Dhabi on 10–11 November 2026 talks appears to put European security architecture issues front and central:
Called the framing of “what will happen after the inevitable end of the conflict in Ukraine” correct.
Noted Russia had repeatedly raised the need for a new, comprehensive, and fair European security system (citing a 2008 proposal and 2021 documents sent to NATO, the US, and European countries).
Said the Ukraine conflict showed that the post-Yalta/Potsdam security system “is working very poorly.” In a widely reported metaphor: “In fact, the whole body is sick. And in Ukraine, an abscess just broke out. Therefore, it is necessary to treat the whole body. You can’t do it with a Band-Aid.”
Said “The world needs a new, modern, updated security system – one that is fair and does not disadvantage any particular countries.”
Described Witkoff and Kushner as “sincere, effective and result-oriented”. Suggested Europe could learn “common sense, realism and a desire to achieve peace” from them.
Said the Russian side did not communicate with European representatives present and did not understand their status (the format was agreed as trilateral). Accused the leadership of several European countries of “group/collective deception of the Ukrainian people,” of financing and supplying weapons to one side, and of effectively contributing to mass civilian deaths.
Russia had received “not a single peace initiative or a single concrete peace proposal” from European countries, so it was unclear what there was to discuss. “If they came here as tourists, let them chat in the hotel lobby bar.” Europeans could join once their “conscience awakens”; until then they remain participants in the deception and accomplices in civilian deaths.
On territory: “Every inch of Russian land will be returned to Russia, one way or another” (he dismissed Western reports suggesting otherwise).
Reporting (including from Ukrainian sources citing closed discussions) also indicated he said Russia had no objection to Ukraine joining the EU provided it stayed out of military alliances (NATO or European ones). He reportedly criticized past NATO expansion and said Moscow no longer trusts Western non-expansion assurances.
Emphasized that concrete negotiation details are not discussed publicly until final agreements.
Medinsky on the Abu Dhabi on 10–11 November 2026 talks appears to put European security architecture issues front and central:
Called the framing of “what will happen after the inevitable end of the conflict in Ukraine” correct.
Noted Russia had repeatedly raised the need for a new, comprehensive, and fair European security system (citing a 2008 proposal and 2021 documents sent to NATO, the US, and European countries).
Said the Ukraine conflict showed that the post-Yalta/Potsdam security system “is working very poorly.” In a widely reported metaphor: “In fact, the whole body is sick. And in Ukraine, an abscess just broke out. Therefore, it is necessary to treat the whole body. You can’t do it with a Band-Aid.”
Said “The world needs a new, modern, updated security system – one that is fair and does not disadvantage any particular countries.”
Described Witkoff and Kushner as “sincere, effective and result-oriented”. Suggested Europe could learn “common sense, realism and a desire to achieve peace” from them.
Said the Russian side did not communicate with European representatives present and did not understand their status (the format was agreed as trilateral). Accused the leadership of several European countries of “group/collective deception of the Ukrainian people,” of financing and supplying weapons to one side, and of effectively contributing to mass civilian deaths.
Russia had received “not a single peace initiative or a single concrete peace proposal” from European countries, so it was unclear what there was to discuss. “If they came here as tourists, let them chat in the hotel lobby bar.” Europeans could join once their “conscience awakens”; until then they remain participants in the deception and accomplices in civilian deaths.
On territory: “Every inch of Russian land will be returned to Russia, one way or another” (he dismissed Western reports suggesting otherwise).
Reporting (including from Ukrainian sources citing closed discussions) also indicated he said Russia had no objection to Ukraine joining the EU provided it stayed out of military alliances (NATO or European ones). He reportedly criticized past NATO expansion and said Moscow no longer trusts Western non-expansion assurances.
Emphasized that concrete negotiation details are not discussed publicly until final agreements.
‼️King’s College London War Studies PhD Alexander Grable just published a paper that directly challenges the core Western claim about the Ukraine war: that Russia is taking multiples of Ukrainian casualties and is being steadily attrited.
The article appears in the official 2026 Russia Seminar proceedings of the Finnish National Defence University.
Using open-source data only, Grable argues the opposite is true - Ukrainian irretrievable losses are substantially higher, both absolutely and relatively.
The most striking indicators:
➡️ Ukrainian Ministry of Health / National Institute of Strategic Studies amputee figures, even when deliberately adjusted downward to match the best U.S. medical performance in the War on Terror, imply 400,000–520,000 Ukrainian KIA by late 2024.
➡️ Parallel Russian military-hospital data (obtained via a defector) shows far fewer amputees relative to admissions.
➡️ Body exchanges across the war average roughly 12.5 Ukrainian dead returned for every 1 Russian.
➡️ Open-source Russian death tallies (Mediazona and similar) show serious inflation when cross-checked against obituaries and probate records. A 2025 prisoner cohort of ~4,000 produced only ~112 corroborated deaths by late summer — incompatible with claims of 30–50k Russian dead per month.
Grable’s conclusion: Russian KIA/MIA are very probably lower than most Western estimates, Ukrainian losses are very probably higher, and Ukraine is on the wrong side of the attritional gradient. Russia has used superior firepower, training, and its reconnaissance-strike complex to impose highly unfavorable ratios.
Full paper (free PDF): doria.fi/handle/10024/195520
This is not a fringe blog or a politicised claim. It is a published contribution to a major military university’s research series.
ICYMI, China is deliberately keeping large volumes of Nvidia AI chips out of the country and has ordered firms like Alibaba and ByteDance to cancel orders. Roughly 600,000 Nvidia chips are now stuck in Hong Kong. China is forcing its own semiconductor industry to catch up. And we already how this will very likely ultimately end - with masses of high quality Chinese chips available on the global market at prices others can't match. Go see solar panels and EVs.
This is what Bill Maher said after his private invitation from Trump - that he found the private Trump to be a totally different man to the public Trump.
President Trump's 2021 letter to incoming President Joe Biden has been obtained by The New York Times, which is detailed in Biden's new book.
The letter was written in black Sharpie.
In the book, Biden described how surprised he was to see how kind and warm Trump was to him.
Biden said during his meeting with Trump after the 2024 election, Trump adopted "a tone so friendly that I thought he might be putting me on."
"You know, Joe, if it weren’t for politics, I believe we’d be good friends," Trump said, according to the book.
The letter from President Trump to Biden is below:
You want to know why Iran may decide to outwait Trump? Watch this movie.
Reuters reports that "majorities of Americans want the newly elected Democratic-majority US Congress to act to end the war with Iran and to repeal tariffs put in place by President Donald Trump. The four-day poll, completed on Monday, showed 71% of Americans, including 93% of Democrats and 51% of Republicans, want US Congress to pass legislation ending the conflict with Iran that Trump launched alongside US ally Israel in February."
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Something seems to be going on that may be 'conveniently timed' with the Abu Dhabi talks. 🔽
On the night of November 9–10, residents across Kyiv, Zhytomyr, Vinnytsia, Dnipro, and other parts of central Ukraine reported sudden vibrations, low rumbling, and buildings shaking - sometimes strongly enough to open doors or dislodge plaster - around 00:26 local time. Some also described sounds resembling explosions beforehand. Not everyone in the affected cities felt it. Ukrainian seismic authorities have not registered a confirmed earthquake matching these reports. USGS data shows nothing corresponding, and the European-Mediterranean Seismological Centre’s automatic detection produced an incomplete listing without reliable magnitude, epicenter, or depth.
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Trilateral talks between the US, Ukraine, and Russia picked back up in Abu Dhabi on 10–11 November 2026.
According to people involved in the talks (cited by The Economist), US negotiators have floated the idea of redrawing Ukraine’s administrative boundaries for the Donetsk and Luhansk regions. It’s basically a “cartographic fudge,” as the magazine put it, a way for Russia to claim full control of the Donbas while Ukraine doesn’t actually hand over the cities and territory its forces still hold. Other coverage has described it the same way: a formal tweak that lets Russia declare “victory” without a real handover of remaining Ukrainian-held areas. It’s just one idea being discussed, not a done deal. Ukraine’s public stance has long been against giving up territory it still controls, with officials saying any territorial questions would need leaders-level talks and solid security guarantees.
A second big US idea is letting Russian oil and gas back into European markets as a concession to get Russia on board. Ukraine and European partners have pushed back hard: a Ukrainian official was quoted saying, “Not a chance of us agreeing to that while the war is still raging.” Earlier related ideas (like energy pipelines with profit-sharing or gradual sanctions relief as part of bigger frameworks) ran into the same kind of resistance.
Security guarantees are still the toughest part. Ukraine says it can’t stop fighting without them. US negotiators have suggested Putin might accept American guarantees modeled on NATO Article 4 (consult if threatened) or Article 5 (obligation to defend if attacked). Ukrainians are skeptical that President Trump would actually stick to those commitments. Russia’s demands include Ukrainian neutrality, a smaller or demilitarized Ukrainian military, and no multinational or NATO-linked “reassurance” troops in Ukraine. Ukraine wants strong support for at least ten years - funding for reconstruction, veterans, and families - plus an army around 800,000 strong. Americans see ongoing large-scale aid as expensive, and Europeans have been unclear about covering long-term costs.
Broader discussions have included a possible reworked NATO-Russia Council or a new European security setup where NATO stays central and no country gets a veto over others’ alliances. Kushner has sketched out practical pieces like permanent security consultations, crisis communications, military transparency, and reciprocal de-escalation steps. US officials have said any security guarantees for Ukraine would also need to be acceptable to Moscow in some form.
Sources familiar with the talks said Russia has shown “unusual flexibility,” especially on the idea of ending fighting along the current front lines - tied to the US proposals and expanding the talks to cover broader European security. Ukrainian officials remain skeptical that Putin is ready for a full deal before Russia’s winter campaign ends, and they see the talks as possibly just a “Plan B” while military pressure continues. More realistic near-term possibilities include limited prisoner exchanges and localized ceasefires in less critical areas like parts of Kherson or Sumy.
Earlier US and European discussions reported in October 2026 included multi-pillar ideas covering reconstruction financing, Article 5-like security pledges, energy and economic integration with sanctions timelines, and a ceasefire along existing lines of control without full legal recognition of Russian gains. US officials have described the Abu Dhabi process as building on those concepts, with territorial questions likely coming later once security pieces move forward. Trump has publicly said Ukraine would come out with a “little bit different shape.” Ukrainian officials have denied considering major concessions outside a leaders-level context with proper guarantees.
Worth reading through the imaged pages🔽from "Regime Change" by Haberman and Swan.
🔽 I always appreciate Ben's views. I would add a point to what he says. The war has to end, and the sooner the better. However, a lot of people are decrying the concept of arranging security architecture issues to also address Russia's concerns. I get it, but there's something that needs to be understood, especially given where matters now stand: Without security for Russia, there will also be no security for Ukraine.
#RadioMoskva
Ukraine’s Pyrrhic crunch point
There was a horrific shooting incident in Krakow, Poland yesterday where a young 24-year old drove through the old town square and killed 6 with an AR-15 rifle and injured dozens more. One Brit was amongst those killed and the largest share of wounded were the horse drawn carriage drivers that ferry tourist around the iconic tourist destination.
It seems the young man was a gun nut and also shot his father, mother and sister at home before starting on his shooting spree. The motive appears to be he was obsessed with far right ideology and if so then this is an ugly manifestation of the rise of the right in Europe that stems from the increasing cost-of-living crisis. More importantly than that I believe that young people are increasingly angry at what they see as a fading future. We had a GenZ protest here in Berlin and the riots in Paris are ongoing, but the root of all these outbursts is that young people can see that for maybe the first time since the end of WWII their lives are unlikely to be better than their parents – and they are pushing back with protests, riots and now shootings.
War in Ukraine is feeding into this dystopian outlook. It has gone to the next level now and in Kyiv the lights are only on for two hours a day. That is worse than the worst case scenarios being kicked about at the end of summer. Putin has moved on from his “Pandora’s box” to “completely destroy your infrastructure.” And he is doing it. As we predicted in spring, he is now going after the substationsthat link the NPPs to what remains of the grid – the only generation capacity that Ukraine has left – and taking them out one by one. The NPPs still work, but they have no way to get their power to anyone.
Zelenskiy vows to fight on, but the polls are starting to show that people have had enough and want this to stop. Crucially ahead of the Abu Dhabi meeting tomorrow everyone is talking very seriously about a security deal, and for the first time talking about giving Russia a security deal. Zelenskiy is even talking about an “iron-clad” deal, using the language Russia introduced in January 2022.
Everyone is also talking about giving up territory. Trump said yesterday that if a deal is done then Ukraine would be “a different shape.”
The equation is simple: Zelenskiy gives up the Donbas, but gets a real security deal and Putin gets a de facto no-Nato for Ukraine by getting a new European security set up. But doing the deal is going to be really hard. Don’t expect a breakthrough from the Abu Dhabi meeting on January 24, but another encouraging item is that the Stubb-Store-Putin meeting suggests strongly everyone sees this now as a step-by-step diplomatic process so they go into this meeting with a modest but concrete agenda that should be achievable. Russia is clearly taking it seriously and sending a very serious delegation and Putin has clearly been signalling that he is now open to talking to both Zelenskiy and the EU. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is also in play doing meetings with Zelenskiy and calls to the Kremlin and is offering to mediate again as he did in the failed 2022 Istanbul peace deal.
The reason its all gotten so serious is that it is now clear that Ukraine is out of ammo and helpless. I'm going to do a blog today if I can find time pointing out that the war has to stop now as if it doesn’t any Ukrainian “victory” that ends the war on Ukraine’s terms (like a sudden Russian economic collapse or perhaps a palace coup) would be a Pyrrhic victory as already there is so little of the economy left. If Putin carries through on his threat to obliterate what is left of Ukraine’s power sectorand the rest of the infrastructure the whole economy will have to be rebuilt from scratch.
For Russia time has run out too with more than 450,000 now confirmed dead.
We have already passed the point of catastrophic damage and this is a rescue of what is left. From that point of view Ukraine has already lost this war, and lost it when Trump took office. Since then its been a catalogue of details. But with the entire population of Kyiv preparing to decamp to Lviv on the other side of the country, its crunch time.
This article originally appeared in Editor’s Picks, a free daily email digest of bne IntelliNews’ best stories from the last 24 hours. Sign up for free here.
to989.infusionsoft.com/app/f…
bneeditor.substack.com/p/ukr…
It's a real two edged sword, both for China and the world as a whole. One needs to look at it with nuance and pragmatism. While the Chinese are proud of their success, they also recognize the issues it creates.
China’s Trade Surplus Passes $1 Trillion at Record Pace nytimes.com/2026/11/09/busin…
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FT reports that Europe's most unpopular leader is now putting a gun to the EU's head.
German Chancellor Friedrich Merz has told European Council President António Costa that Germany will withhold approval for the EU’s next multiannual budget unless every member state signs up to ongoing financial support for Ukraine from 2027 onward. In a letter obtained by the Financial Times, Merz ties Berlin’s consent for the 2028-2034 spending framework to a binding pledge from all capitals that they will help close Kyiv’s projected €70 billion funding shortfall next year.
“A collective commitment that all of us, without exception, will contribute fairly to closing [Ukraine’s financing] gap is an essential prerequisite for resolving this issue and for discussing any further matters, particularly those with financial implications,” Merz wrote. The warning is timed for an informal meeting of EU leaders in Dublin this Thursday and Friday, where the chancellor has insisted the Ukrainian shortfall must be settled.
EU leaders approved a €90 billion loan package for Ukraine last December, yet Russian military pressure has left Kyiv stating it still requires an additional €70 billion in 2026. Brussels has promised to cover roughly two-thirds of that amount (around €45 billion) and the Commission is examining further joint borrowing as one possible route, aiming for a deal before year-end.
Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria and the Czech Republic have already indicated they will not join any new round of contributions. The first three of those countries previously secured an exemption from interest payments on the existing €90 billion loan. Merz wrote that “we must then find a solution supported by all Member States that ensures a sound and multiannual financing perspective for Ukraine from 2028 onwards,” covering both fresh aid and debt-service costs.
Separately, French far-right leader Marine Le Pen, currently ahead in polls for next April’s presidential election, has said that a government under her would limit support for Ukraine to operational help and troop training only. The financing talks coincide with already difficult bargaining over the post-2027 EU budget. Germany is the largest net payer into the common budget, while the four reluctant states are net recipients. By leveraging that position, Merz is attempting to lock in Ukrainian funding both for next year and for the longer term. National elections still ahead in Italy and Poland are expected to make unanimous agreement harder still.
Berlin is also pushing for future Ukraine-related decisions to be taken by qualified majority rather than unanimity, precisely to prevent single-country vetoes. A German government official told the FT: “Ukraine’s financial needs need to be resolved in the framework of the next [EU budget]. Financial support for Ukraine of all EU member states is essential in order to successfully complete [the EU budget negotiations].”
🔽 {And may the devil take the entire Scottish government accordingly too.}
Since the Scottish Government didnt even bother tweeting Remembrance Sunday, it falls to the normal people of Scotland to do it for them. Here are three servicemen whose names are at Cardross memorial in Scotland about 5 miles from me.
In the middle Sgt James Johnston McPherson navigator/gunner, of Cardross, with his friends Bob and Fitz, 77 squadron RAF Bomber Command. RAF Elvington 1942 (this is now Yorkshire Air Museum apparently).
This photo was taken just before they went off on duty over Germany and were never seen again, they were all about 21.
Thanks to local, Donald John Chisholm, for sharing online, a few people commented to Donald that they look rather older than 21, to which he replied you try doing a few missions and see how you feel afterwards.
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