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Third Shock For Elon Musk In 3 Days After Midterms: Senate Move Against Tesla Boss Revealed| Warren
Transcript 0:00 to 7:35
07NOV2026
youtube.com/watch?v=umgQaLkB…
After Democrats flipped both chambers of Congress, Sen. Elizabeth Warren lays out an aggressive plan to use their new power to take on Donald Trump, billionaire donors, and corporate executives.
Warren says Democrats should pursue tougher oversight of big tech CEOs, Wall Street leaders, and giant corporations that she argues have profited from a rigged system at the expense of working Americans.
She also calls for cracking down on government corruption, reversing Republican tax breaks for the ultrawealthy, lowering health care costs, and forcing Trump-aligned Republicans to take public votes on accountability measures.
Project America explores the politics, economy, society and global role of the United States through a liberal lens.
Smart, sharp and independent, we challenge conventional thinking, question power and connect the biggest stories to what they mean for everyday Americans—without outrage, conspiracy or partisan cheerleading.
Transcript
Follow along using the transcript.
Show transcript
Project America | News
Transcript
Chapter 1: The case for change
0:00
0 s
Democrats just flipped both the House and the Senate big time. And here's why.
0:07
7 s
Democrats won by being populist economic fighters who just weren't afraid to call
0:14
14 s
out corrupt politicians and who weren't afraid to take on corporate interests that have rigged the system. It's a
0:21
21 s
two-part plan for Democrats. First, you win and then you deliver. And now that's the part Democrats have to do. Deliver.
0:31
31 s
That's right. Even with Donald Trump still in the White House. You remember this. Donald Trump declared that he
0:37
37 s
would cut costs on day one. And he bragged that he would end inflation and make America affordable again. Instead,
0:46
46 s
Trump and Republicans just they took a wrecking ball to our economy. They cut health care so that they could fund tax breaks for rich people. They imposed
0:55
55 s
chaotic tariffs and they launched an endless war. And at the same time, Donald Trump has tried his hardest to
1:03
1 m, 3 s
rework the federal government into some kind of corruption machine designed to rake in profits for himself, his
1:11
1 m, 11 s
families, and his buddies. And on Tuesday, Democrats won by saying enough is enough.
Chapter 2: The strategy for winning
1:20
1 m, 20 s
Democrats won by recognizing Americans economic pain, by denouncing the corruption, and by pledging to upend
1:29
1 m, 29 s
this broken system. We relentlessly and rightfully criticize Trump's economy.
1:36
1 m, 36 s
But we also made a deeper point about who the economy works for. And it struck
1:42
1 m, 42 s
home. shared Brown, James Terico, John Oaf, they all talked about a rigged system. Annie Andrews promised to take
1:51
1 m, 51 s
on quote big insurance, big tech, big pharma, and the utility monopolies. Go
1:58
1 m, 58 s
Annie. Josh Turk, he promised to fight for Ians, not for quote billionaires and large corporations.
2:08
2 m, 8 s
Chris Papus declared to New Hampshire voters in his victory speech. Quote, "Tonight's results are a wake-up call
2:17
2 m, 17 s
for the corporate special interests and billionaires who've been rigging the economy. It's a long, long list." And
2:27
2 m, 27 s
you know, is that just campaign rhetoric? No. Democrats actually got into the details. The winning candidates
Chapter 3: Detailed policy proposals
2:37
2 m, 37 s
stood up for big policy changes like increasing the federal minimum wage, expanding child care, reigning in big
2:45
2 m, 45 s
tech and data centers and AI, and reforming healthcare.
2:50
2 m, 50 s
We came with plans, specific policies to dismantle a rigged system and to beat back this concentrated corporate power.
3:01
3 m, 1 s
From Mary Pellet to Roy Cooper, Democrats called for blocking grocery store mergers that drive up prices. Wow.
3:12
3 m, 12 s
Josh Turk and James Terico promised to break up vertical integration between insurance companies and pharmacy benefit
3:18
3 m, 18 s
managers and pharmacies and yeah, I got a bill for that. Troy Jackson and Abdul Elsed campaigned on Medicare for all.
3:28
3 m, 28 s
Look, not long ago, promising to raise taxes on the rich was considered unthinkable.
3:34
3 m, 34 s
But Democrats all around the country did that and won. This happened because
Chapter 4: Earning voter trust
3:41
3 m, 41 s
Democrats put in the work to earn the trust of voters. And and I'll give you one example of that. Our new housing affordability law, you remember the
3:50
3 m, 50 s
[clears throat] one that Donald Trump refused to sign, that was a critical proof point for a lot of the candidates.
3:56
3 m, 56 s
And in races from Kentucky to Indiana to South Carolina, candidates loudly proclaimed their support for blocking private equity from gobbling up houses.
4:08
4 m, 8 s
Annie Andrews and Adam Hamilton campaigned on cracking down on Wall Street ownership of single family homes,
4:16
4 m, 16 s
even more than the historic provisions that we passed this summer. Well, now it's time to act. Donald Trump says he
4:24
4 m, 24 s
wants to work with Democrats. Let's make him do it. I'm ready to team up with any Republican who is listening to the American people.
4:34
4 m, 34 s
But if congressional Republicans won't join us to deliver relief for working families, then we'll do it without them.
Chapter 5: Legislative roadmap
4:42
4 m, 42 s
Look, some people have said it is wasted energy to send strong policy changes to the Trump White House. I disagree. Trump says he welcomes the nickname Mr. Veto.
4:56
4 m, 56 s
Well, let's test him out on that. That means passing legislation to make life more affordable for Americans and to make our government less corrupt.
5:08
5 m, 8 s
One, let's stop Trump's war. Two, let's cut costs. Now, Trump may still be
5:16
5 m, 16 s
president, but Democrats have the power on spending bills, and we should use it.
5:23
5 m, 23 s
I'm talking about no more funding for a forever war with Iran. And how about cancelling the looming healthc care
5:30
5 m, 30 s
insurance cuts and nutrition benefits put in place by the Republicans last summer? And look, there's some
5:38
5 m, 38 s
legislation that we can pass that isn't going to require a single Republican vote. expand healthc care coverage, fund
5:46
5 m, 46 s
universal child care, get things done for the American people. And that takes
Chapter 6: Fairness and accountability
5:52
5 m, 52 s
me to three. Pay for all of this by putting a little fairness back in the
5:59
5 m, 59 s
system. We can start with cancelling the tax breaks that Trump and the Republicans handed out to giant
6:06
6 m, 6 s
corporations and ultraillionaires and billionaires. And believe me, that's a whole lot of money just right there. And
6:15
6 m, 15 s
for things where we need Republican votes, let's make them take those votes.
6:20
6 m, 20 s
I'm talking about policies to ban stock trading by federal officials or crack down on Trump's blatant corruption.
6:27
6 m, 27 s
Democrats should put the bills up for a vote and then let the Republicans decide if they really want to stay tied to that kind of corruption. And if they do,
6:36
6 m, 36 s
let's clear away the Senate filibuster rules and pass the laws anyway. So, we've talked about trying to get
6:43
6 m, 43 s
bipartisan bills passed, passing funding bills that we won't need Republican votes for, and forcing Republicans to take hard votes when we do need them.
6:52
6 m, 52 s
Let me hit one more bucket of the work ahead. Accountability.
Chapter 7: The call to action
6:57
6 m, 57 s
Congress has the power to hold Donald Trump and his cronies accountable for ripping off the American people so they
7:04
7 m, 4 s
could make themselves richer. I'm looking at big tech CEOs and Wall Street executives and giant corporations. You
7:12
7 m, 12 s
know who you are. These guys should prepare to answer tough questions and face real consequences if they have broken the law.
7:22
7 m, 22 s
Democrats won by claiming we are on the side of working people. And working people are now counting on us to
7:29
7 m, 29 s
deliver. We can't wait 2 years. We need to deliver now.
7:35
7 m, 35 s
[music]
Democrats Will Be in Charge of Congress. Elizabeth Warren Has a Plan for That.
Listen · 4:07 min
By Shane Goldmacher
Nov. 10, 2026, 5:04 a.m. ET
NYT Gift Article link
nytimes.com/2026/11/10/us/po…
The Massachusetts senator said it is imperative that Democrats address economic pain after running campaigns that centered cost-of-living issues.
Senator Elizabeth Warren, Democrat of Massachusetts, has one big fear about her party’s newfound congressional majorities.
It is that Democrats, after campaigning on affordability, will shy away from pursuing a “full-throated” agenda of “economic populism” that delivers for frustrated voters.
Ms. Warren knows that President Trump can still veto any legislation he wants and that the filibuster remains an impediment. But she believes there are already some areas of common ground between his party and hers — such as limiting the role of private equity in buying up housing and capping credit card fees — and that Democrats must push through those bills and many more.
“If Democrats don’t deliver — or at least get caught trying — then it will be damned hard to go back to the American people and ask them to put us in charge again,” Ms. Warren said in an interview with The New York Times.
Ms. Warren, who ran for president in 2020 and remains one of the party’s leading voices on policy on the left, is set to deliver her vision for the next two years in a speech on Tuesday at Popular Mandate, a one-day conference of progressive groups in Washington.
Ms. Warren, whose unofficial slogan during her 2020 run was “I have a plan for that,” listed keeping private equity out of the housing market and capping credit card fees as issues that Mr. Trump has embraced previously and that Democrats support.
“It would be a tremendous breach of faith with Americans if Democrats spend the next few years railing against Trump and waiting for some future Democratic trifecta before we deliver real change,” she added.
That does not mean she wants a watered down approach.
In a copy of her prepared remarks provided in advance, Ms. Warren plans to mock the “self-titled ‘strategists’ in our party who are happy to have Democrats rail against billionaires at their rallies — but they expect softer, more middle-of-the-road, corporate-friendly economic policies once in office.”
In the interview, she said Democrats needed to dare Mr. Trump to veto some of the party’s popular priorities.
“He claims he wants to lower costs, then let’s put a lot of proposals in front of him,” she said, including raising the federal minimum wage, banning congressional stock trading and banning A.I. surveillance pricing, or the practice of using consumer data to generate personalized prices.
Mr. Trump said in the wake of the election that he wanted to work with Democrats. Later in the week, however, he installed Stephen Miller, one of his most hard-line advisers, as chief of staff, a move that has been widely viewed as a sign of digging in for political warfare rather than preparing for legislative deal-making.
In January, Ms. Warren is set to become the chair of the Senate Banking Committee, and she vowed to use the powerful perch to go after bad actors in the financial industry.
“If you’ve been boosting your profits by cheating people, you should be scared,” she said of Wall Street.
She cited Mr. Trump’s financial foray into the crypto industry as something “that’s worth a look.” (Mr. Trump has dismissed concerns about financial conflicts, including on CBS’s “60 Minutes” on Sunday, saying “every president” faces such accusations.) Ms. Warren has remained deeply skeptical of cryptocurrency in general.
In fact, Ms. Warren struggled to name a single positive effect of crypto on the financial system.
“I’m still waiting for crypto to make that case,” she said. “They’ve had 18 years now to show the positive use case for crypto and it’s hard to see where that is.”
The one thing Ms. Warren did not want to discuss was whether Senator Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York, should be the next majority leader.
“Not today,” she said of that topic.
Shane Goldmacher is a Times national political correspondent.
See more on: Elizabeth Warren, Democratic Party
Read 601 comments
________________________________________
More on the 2026 Midterm Elections
________________________________________
White, Working-Class Voters: White voters without a college degree, a cornerstone of the Republican base in the Trump era, shifted left in the midterms. We asked them why.
nytimes.com/2026/11/07/us/po…
Republicans Point Fingers: Following their party’s huge midterm losses, Republicans have entered their most uncertain moment in years.
nytimes.com/2026/11/08/us/po…
Some have called for moderation and cleaning house, but that will be difficult with President Trump still in the White House.
Our Interview With Gina Hinojosa: The governor-elect helped break the Republican grip on Texas, but in her first interview with The Times since her victory, she made it clear that changing how the state was governed would not happen overnight.
nytimes.com/2026/11/08/us/gi…
10 Ads That Defined the Midterms: In a Democratic landslide election, here are the ads that stood out. Some were effective, while others backfired.
nytimes.com/2026/11/07/us/po…
Counting California’s Ballots: The state is once again processing mail ballots at a deliberate pace. Only about 65 percent of the votes had been tallied as of Thursday.
nytimes.com/2026/11/06/us/el…
Elon Musk: Behind the scenes, the world’s richest person spent a record amount over two years to bend the country’s politics to his will.
nytimes.com/2026/11/06/us/po…
He couldn’t.
Turning Point USA: Candidates backed by the right-wing activist group did not fare well, and the results set off recriminations from establishment Republicans.
nytimes.com/2026/11/07/us/tu…
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Democrats Will Be in Charge of Congress. Elizabeth Warren Has a Plan for That.
Listen · 4:07 min
By Shane Goldmacher
10NOV2026
NYT Gift Article link
nytimes.com/2026/11/10/us/po…
The Massachusetts senator said it is imperative that Democrats address economic pain after running campaigns that centered cost-of-living issues.
Senator Elizabeth Warren, Democrat of Massachusetts, has one big fear about her party’s newfound congressional majorities.
Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts is set to speak at a conference of progressive groups on Tuesday.
Credit...Valerie Plesch for The New York Times
‘Fight Harder,’ U.N. Chief Implores, Rousing Global Climate Ambassadors
Listen · 6:12 min
11NOV2026
By Chico Harlan and Lisa Friedman
NYT Gift Article link
nytimes.com/2026/11/11/clima…
Reporting from Antalya, Turkey
The United Nations secretary general, António Guterres, spoke at COP31, a meeting aimed at reducing emissions, amid a sharp drop in attendance by world leaders.
Opening a climate summit that leaders from most industrialized nations chose to skip, António Guterres, the United Nations secretary general, on Wednesday warned that the planet was on a “path to mutually assured destruction,” unable to wean itself from planet-warming fossil fuels and facing intensifying disasters.
“Fossil fuel interests keep making a killing while killing our planet,” Mr. Guterres told world leaders gathering for the summit, known as COP31.
Mr. Guterres, who is in the final weeks of his term after leading the United Nations for a decade, urged nations to “end the addiction” to fossil fuels.
His remarks sharpened the tensions for an event that often struggles to directly address the burning of fossil fuels, which is the root cause of climate change.
He and others acknowledged the world has failed to meet the goal it established in the Paris agreement in 2015 to limit rising global temperatures to 1.5 degrees Celsius (2.7 degrees Fahrenheit) above preindustrial levels.
That’s the threshold beyond which scientists say the dangers of global warming
— including worsening floods, fiercer wildfires, droughts and ecosystem collapse —
grow considerably.
On Wednesday, leaders one by one insisted that despite rising levels of greenhouse gas emissions in the atmosphere, it was possible, and critical, to get back on track.
nytimes.com/2026/09/02/clima…
“Science is not telling us to surrender,” Mr. Guterres said. “It is telling us to fight harder.”
President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey, the host of the conference, warned, “With every minute that we fail to achieve the targets set out in the Paris agreement, the risks and costs we face continue to grow.”
He blamed a “greedy mind set” of overconsumption for the failure.
Turkey is one of several countries, including the United States, whose climate goals have been deemed “critically insufficient” by independent analysts to keeping temperatures at safe levels.
climateactiontracker.org/cou…
The two-day leaders’ summit is part of the broader U.N. climate conference, which began on Monday in Antalya on Turkey’s Mediterranean coast. This year, 91 world leaders are attending, according to advance figures, down from 156 three years ago.
At the same time, more than 92,000 people have registered to attend the summit, according to the U.N., making it the largest climate conference in history.
COP31 comes at a challenging time for climate efforts. Wars and tariffs have driven a wedge into international cooperation. The U.S. and Israeli fight against Iran, now in its ninth month, has disrupted the flow of oil from the Middle East and pushed up global fuel prices. Nations are building up solar and wind capacity as a hedge against shocks while also burning more coal to ensure a stable energy supply. And in part because of data centers to power artificial intelligence, nations need more energy than ever — whatever the source.
President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva of Brazil said climate change had “disappeared” from the global stage over the past two years.
Without directly mentioning the United States or President Trump, who has imposed steep tariffs on Brazilian products, he said, “We started talking more about weapons and tariffs than the survival of future generations.”
nytimes.com/2026/07/15/busin…
The United States, the largest historic emitter of greenhouse gases, withdrew from the Paris climate agreement and is skipping COP31.
Prime Minister Andy Burnham of Britain, who is scheduled to speak on Thursday, was expected to be the only leader of the Group of 7 wealthy nations to attend the climate summit.
The French president, Emmanuel Macron, whose country was host to the landmark Paris agreement, will be absent because Wednesday is Armistice Day, and is then traveling to Ireland for a European meeting, government officials said. Chancellor Friedrich Merz of Germany, Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni of Italy and Prime Minister Mark Carney of Canada are also skipping the event.
“It really is a disgrace,” Mohamed Adow, the director of Power Shift Africa, a climate research group, said in a statement.
“The world’s biggest economies should be leading the response to the climate crisis, not leaving it to others.”
Mr. Erdogan also used his address to call for more humanitarian aid to Gaza. He referred to the war between Israel and Hamas militants that began in 2023 as “not only a genocide, but an ecocide.”
The war, Mr. Erdogan said, had uprooted olive trees, polluted the soil and water in the seaside territory and turned Gaza’s cities into “enormous piles of rubble.”
Israel strongly rejects any suggestion that it committed genocide. Mr. Erdogan has often harshly criticized Israel and its treatment of Palestinians, contributing to increasingly tense relations between Turkey and Israel.
nytimes.com/2026/08/29/world…
In his speech, Mr. Guterres called out fossil fuel interests several times and drew applause when he said, “I will not stop telling the truth.” Nations agreed three years ago to transition away from fossil fuels, starting with steps this decade. But some oil- and gas-exporting countries have since ramped up production. Carbon emissions continue to rise. Countries like Saudi Arabia and Russia have blocked recent U.N. conferences from revisiting the deal and fleshing out specifics.
“Fossil fuels must go the way of the dinosaurs,” Mr. Guterres said. “And that won’t happen on its own. The dinosaurs did not have a lobby, but fossil fuels do.”
Ben Hubbard contributed reporting.
Chico Harlan is a global climate correspondent for The Times.
Lisa Friedman is a business correspondent covering energy for The New York Times.
See more on:
Antonio Guterres,
nytimes.com/topic/antonio-gu…
United Nations
nytimes.com/topic/organizati…
‘Fight Harder,’ U.N. Chief Implores, Rousing Global Climate Ambassadors
Listen · 6:12 min
11NOV2026
By Chico Harlan and Lisa Friedman
NYT Gift Article link
nytimes.com/2026/11/11/clima…
Reporting from Antalya, Turkey
The United Nations secretary general, António Guterres, spoke at COP31, a meeting aimed at reducing emissions, amid a sharp drop in attendance by world leaders.
“Fossil fuel interests keep making a killing while killing our planet,” António Guterres, the United Nations secretary general, said at COP31 on Wednesday.
Credit...Khalil Hamra/Associated Press
‘Fight Harder,’ U.N. Chief Implores, Rousing Global Climate Ambassadors
Listen · 6:12 min
11NOV2026
By Chico Harlan and Lisa Friedman
NYT Gift Article link
nytimes.com/2026/11/11/clima…
Reporting from Antalya, Turkey
The United Nations secretary general, António Guterres, spoke at COP31, a meeting aimed at reducing emissions, amid a sharp drop in attendance by world leaders.
Opening a climate summit that leaders from most industrialized nations chose to skip, António Guterres, the United Nations secretary general, on Wednesday warned that the planet was on a “path to mutually assured destruction,” unable to wean itself from planet-warming fossil fuels and facing intensifying disasters.
“Fossil fuel interests keep making a killing while killing our planet,” Mr. Guterres told world leaders gathering for the summit, known as COP31.
Mr. Guterres, who is in the final weeks of his term after leading the United Nations for a decade, urged nations to “end the addiction” to fossil fuels.
His remarks sharpened the tensions for an event that often struggles to directly address the burning of fossil fuels, which is the root cause of climate change.
He and others acknowledged the world has failed to meet the goal it established in the Paris agreement in 2015 to limit rising global temperatures to 1.5 degrees Celsius (2.7 degrees Fahrenheit) above preindustrial levels.
That’s the threshold beyond which scientists say the dangers of global warming
— including worsening floods, fiercer wildfires, droughts and ecosystem collapse —
grow considerably.
On Wednesday, leaders one by one insisted that despite rising levels of greenhouse gas emissions in the atmosphere, it was possible, and critical, to get back on track.
nytimes.com/2026/09/02/clima…
“Science is not telling us to surrender,” Mr. Guterres said. “It is telling us to fight harder.”
President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey, the host of the conference, warned, “With every minute that we fail to achieve the targets set out in the Paris agreement, the risks and costs we face continue to grow.”
He blamed a “greedy mind set” of overconsumption for the failure.
Turkey is one of several countries, including the United States, whose climate goals have been deemed “critically insufficient” by independent analysts to keeping temperatures at safe levels.
climateactiontracker.org/cou…
The two-day leaders’ summit is part of the broader U.N. climate conference, which began on Monday in Antalya on Turkey’s Mediterranean coast. This year, 91 world leaders are attending, according to advance figures, down from 156 three years ago.
At the same time, more than 92,000 people have registered to attend the summit, according to the U.N., making it the largest climate conference in history.
COP31 comes at a challenging time for climate efforts. Wars and tariffs have driven a wedge into international cooperation. The U.S. and Israeli fight against Iran, now in its ninth month, has disrupted the flow of oil from the Middle East and pushed up global fuel prices. Nations are building up solar and wind capacity as a hedge against shocks while also burning more coal to ensure a stable energy supply. And in part because of data centers to power artificial intelligence, nations need more energy than ever — whatever the source.
President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva of Brazil said climate change had “disappeared” from the global stage over the past two years.
Without directly mentioning the United States or President Trump, who has imposed steep tariffs on Brazilian products, he said, “We started talking more about weapons and tariffs than the survival of future generations.”
nytimes.com/2026/07/15/busin…
The United States, the largest historic emitter of greenhouse gases, withdrew from the Paris climate agreement and is skipping COP31.
Prime Minister Andy Burnham of Britain, who is scheduled to speak on Thursday, was expected to be the only leader of the Group of 7 wealthy nations to attend the climate summit.
The French president, Emmanuel Macron, whose country was host to the landmark Paris agreement, will be absent because Wednesday is Armistice Day, and is then traveling to Ireland for a European meeting, government officials said. Chancellor Friedrich Merz of Germany, Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni of Italy and Prime Minister Mark Carney of Canada are also skipping the event.
“It really is a disgrace,” Mohamed Adow, the director of Power Shift Africa, a climate research group, said in a statement.
“The world’s biggest economies should be leading the response to the climate crisis, not leaving it to others.”
Mr. Erdogan also used his address to call for more humanitarian aid to Gaza. He referred to the war between Israel and Hamas militants that began in 2023 as “not only a genocide, but an ecocide.”
The war, Mr. Erdogan said, had uprooted olive trees, polluted the soil and water in the seaside territory and turned Gaza’s cities into “enormous piles of rubble.”
Israel strongly rejects any suggestion that it committed genocide. Mr. Erdogan has often harshly criticized Israel and its treatment of Palestinians, contributing to increasingly tense relations between Turkey and Israel.
nytimes.com/2026/08/29/world…
In his speech, Mr. Guterres called out fossil fuel interests several times and drew applause when he said, “I will not stop telling the truth.” Nations agreed three years ago to transition away from fossil fuels, starting with steps this decade. But some oil- and gas-exporting countries have since ramped up production. Carbon emissions continue to rise. Countries like Saudi Arabia and Russia have blocked recent U.N. conferences from revisiting the deal and fleshing out specifics.
“Fossil fuels must go the way of the dinosaurs,” Mr. Guterres said. “And that won’t happen on its own. The dinosaurs did not have a lobby, but fossil fuels do.”
Ben Hubbard contributed reporting.
Chico Harlan is a global climate correspondent for The Times.
Lisa Friedman is a business correspondent covering energy for The New York Times.
See more on:
Antonio Guterres,
nytimes.com/topic/antonio-gu…
United Nations
nytimes.com/topic/organizati…
‘Fight Harder,’ U.N. Chief Implores, Rousing Global Climate Ambassadors
Listen · 6:12 min
11NOV2026
By Chico Harlan and Lisa Friedman
NYT Gift Article link
nytimes.com/2026/11/11/clima…
Reporting from Antalya, Turkey
The United Nations secretary general, António Guterres, spoke at COP31, a meeting aimed at reducing emissions, amid a sharp drop in attendance by world leaders.
“Fossil fuel interests keep making a killing while killing our planet,” António Guterres, the United Nations secretary general, said at COP31 on Wednesday.
Credit...Khalil Hamra/Associated Press
COP31 kicks off as planet faces imminent overshoot of 1.5 °C climate target
09NOV2026
By James Dinneen
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
Scientists say governments must commit to carbon dioxide removal if world is to bring temperatures back down to safer limits.
The United Nations annual climate meeting starting today is the first to take place after confirmation that global warming will overshoot the headline limit of 1.5 °C. The aim of keeping warming within 1.5 °C above pre-industrial temperatures was set out in the 2015 Paris agreement.
As tens of thousands of delegates and observers arrive in Antalya, Turkey, for the COP31 meeting, some scientists and climate advocates say the 12-day event must discuss how to deal with the overshoot. Along with cutting emissions, this includes practical ways of removing massive volumes of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.
The UN Environment Programme last month acknowledged that, under all plausible emissions trajectories, the world will surpass the 1.5 °C target agreed at COP21 in Paris.
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
Its Limiting Overshoot report is the first UN report to state explicitly that overshoot is now inevitable. It also laid out how to bring temperatures back below the 1.5 °C target this century.
In addition to slashing emissions to near-zero levels, the report confirmed the need to remove hundreds of billions of tonnes of CO2 from the atmosphere this century, either using CO2 removal technologies or nature-based approaches such as reforestation. “[K]eeping 1.5 °C within reach requires climate policy to evolve to include the removal of already emitted [greenhouse gases],” the report states.
wedocs.unep.org/items/156d07…
This idea to limit the “magnitude and the duration” of overshooting 1.5 °C is expected to shape discussion among parties at the COP meeting, says Clea Schumer, a research associate at the World Resources Institute, an environmental research and advocacy organization in Washington DC.
Some language on limiting overshoot was included in the final decision of the COP30 summit last year in Belém, Brazil, but CO2 removal has mostly gone unmentioned.
unfccc.int/sites/default/fil…
Most governments “are happy that they finally don’t have to pretend any more that we will make it” to 1.5 °C, says Oliver Geden, a researcher at the German Institute for International and Security Affairs in Berlin. They now want to limit overshoot, “but how we actually do that, nobody is talking about”, he adds.
Steve Smith, a climate researcher at the University of Oxford, UK, agrees. CO2 removal has sparked controversy in the past over concerns that it might distract from the need to cut emissions. But it is possible that CO2 removal could move up the agenda amid discussions about the necessary return from overshoot, he says.
Environmental advocacy groups, such as New York-based Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC), that had been skeptical of CO2 removal, have now changed their position. A report from the organisation in September called on environmentalists to support CO2 removal in the same way they supported renewable energy and electrification.
"It is now time to set the stage for another—an industry that removes carbon dioxide from the atmosphere—to contribute to the fight for climate stability," the report says.
However, so far, no country has included clearly quantified CO2 removal targets in climate commitments submitted to the UN, says Smith. Such targets would be necessary to achieve the large scales of CO2 removal that could bring warming back below 1.5 °C.
“We really want governments to cut emissions and set out clear plans for scaling up CO2 removal," says Smit
COP31 kicks off as planet faces imminent overshoot of 1.5 °C climate target
09NOV2026
By James Dinneen
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
Scientists say governments must commit to carbon dioxide removal if world is to bring temperatures back down to safer limits.
Delegates arriving at the UN COP31 climate conference in Antalya for 12 days of talks.
Credit: Sandro Basili/Shutterstock
COP31 kicks off as planet faces imminent overshoot of 1.5 °C climate target
09NOV2026
By James Dinneen
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
Scientists say governments must commit to carbon dioxide removal if world is to bring temperatures back down to safer limits.
The United Nations annual climate meeting starting today is the first to take place after confirmation that global warming will overshoot the headline limit of 1.5 °C. The aim of keeping warming within 1.5 °C above pre-industrial temperatures was set out in the 2015 Paris agreement.
As tens of thousands of delegates and observers arrive in Antalya, Turkey, for the COP31 meeting, some scientists and climate advocates say the 12-day event must discuss how to deal with the overshoot. Along with cutting emissions, this includes practical ways of removing massive volumes of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.
The UN Environment Programme last month acknowledged that, under all plausible emissions trajectories, the world will surpass the 1.5 °C target agreed at COP21 in Paris.
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
Its Limiting Overshoot report is the first UN report to state explicitly that overshoot is now inevitable. It also laid out how to bring temperatures back below the 1.5 °C target this century.
In addition to slashing emissions to near-zero levels, the report confirmed the need to remove hundreds of billions of tonnes of CO2 from the atmosphere this century, either using CO2 removal technologies or nature-based approaches such as reforestation. “[K]eeping 1.5 °C within reach requires climate policy to evolve to include the removal of already emitted [greenhouse gases],” the report states.
wedocs.unep.org/items/156d07…
This idea to limit the “magnitude and the duration” of overshooting 1.5 °C is expected to shape discussion among parties at the COP meeting, says Clea Schumer, a research associate at the World Resources Institute, an environmental research and advocacy organization in Washington DC.
Some language on limiting overshoot was included in the final decision of the COP30 summit last year in Belém, Brazil, but CO2 removal has mostly gone unmentioned.
unfccc.int/sites/default/fil…
Most governments “are happy that they finally don’t have to pretend any more that we will make it” to 1.5 °C, says Oliver Geden, a researcher at the German Institute for International and Security Affairs in Berlin. They now want to limit overshoot, “but how we actually do that, nobody is talking about”, he adds.
Steve Smith, a climate researcher at the University of Oxford, UK, agrees. CO2 removal has sparked controversy in the past over concerns that it might distract from the need to cut emissions. But it is possible that CO2 removal could move up the agenda amid discussions about the necessary return from overshoot, he says.
Environmental advocacy groups, such as New York-based Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC), that had been skeptical of CO2 removal, have now changed their position. A report from the organisation in September called on environmentalists to support CO2 removal in the same way they supported renewable energy and electrification.
"It is now time to set the stage for another—an industry that removes carbon dioxide from the atmosphere—to contribute to the fight for climate stability," the report says.
However, so far, no country has included clearly quantified CO2 removal targets in climate commitments submitted to the UN, says Smith. Such targets would be necessary to achieve the large scales of CO2 removal that could bring warming back below 1.5 °C.
“We really want governments to cut emissions and set out clear plans for scaling up CO2 removal," says Smit
COP31 kicks off as planet faces imminent overshoot of 1.5 °C climate target
09NOV2026
By James Dinneen
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
Scientists say governments must commit to carbon dioxide removal if world is to bring temperatures back down to safer limits.
Delegates arriving at the UN COP31 climate conference in Antalya for 12 days of talks.
Credit: Sandro Basili/Shutterstock
Bill Gates’s climate comments are a dangerous distraction
18NOV2025
By Michael E. Mann
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
People do not have to dismiss or exaggerate the climate threat to justify concerted action.
Fifteen years ago, my friend and mentor, climate scientist Stephen Schneider, said something that has stuck with me.
When it comes to climate change, the “end of the world” and “good for you” are “the two lowest-probability outcomes”.
npr.org/2010/07/19/128626833…
Extreme heat harms health — what is the human body’s limit?
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
Steve’s aphorism feels especially prescient today. As the 30th United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP30) plays out in Belém, Brazil, this month, misleading climate messaging in the media espouses both these extremes.
At one end, take the actions of billionaire philanthropist Bill Gates. On 28 October, he astounded climate advocates by publishing a manifesto arguing that the climate crisis is less urgent than other major problems that humanity faces (see go.nature.com/23xed). Jarringly, its publication coincided with the devastating Jamaican landfall of potentially the strongest Atlantic hurricane on record, an event that human-caused warming made more likely to happen.
Gates wasn’t implying that global warming is “good for you”, but his arguments are adjacent to that sentiment: there has already been enough progress on climate, and we should instead prioritize addressing what he feels are more pressing issues, such as poverty and disease.
Despite substantial criticism from me and other climate specialists that this presented a false trade-off between climate action and public health, Gates dug in his heels. “What world do they live in?” he said in an interview with the news outlet Axios, telling reporters that he would “let the temperature go up 0.1 degree to get rid of malaria”.
Climate change is also a health crisis — these 3 graphics explain why
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
Indeed, what world is Gates living in? The idea that climate action must come at the expense of efforts to address human health is a provable fallacy. In our book Science Under Siege (2025), public-health scientist Peter Hotez at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, Texas, and I detail how these challenges are, in fact, inseparable. Human-caused climate change will exacerbate pandemics, as it did for COVID-19, and vector-borne diseases, such as malaria. How Gates or anyone else proposes to “get rid of malaria” in a rapidly warming world is anyone’s guess. This is a strawman argument.
Gates’ pivot has been celebrated by climate-change downplayers and fossil-fuel proponents in politics, including US President Donald Trump, and in segments of the media, including the newspapers The Wall Street Journal and New York Post — even if Gates has disavowed their characterizations of his position.
Meanwhile, those at the opposite ‘end of the world’ extreme are hardly any more helpful. “It may be too late” announced Robert Hunziker, a freelance writer in Los Angeles, California, just one month ago on the news site Counterpunch. Such narratives of doom are often reinforced by media outlets that overstate the dire nature of the impacts that are baked in, with breathless headlines about supposed tipping points that have already been crossed. This feeds a collective sense of hopelessness.
Why we still don’t know the mounting health risks of climate change
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
I have long been critical of this sort of climate doomism: it could lead humanity down the same path as outright denial.
livescience.com/planet-earth…
After all, if it’s too late to act, then why act at all? We have even seen doomism increasingly weaponized against climate action — depicting it as a hopeless cause. One example is petrostates such as Saudi Arabia and Russia, which have long lobbied against global climate agreements.
nytimes.com/2023/12/08/clima…
Regrettably, they are now joined by the United States under Trump.
thebulletin.org/2024/11/welc…
Humanity has made progress toward decarbonizing societal infrastructure — but not nearly enough. Current agreements are wholly inadequate to limit warming to below dangerous levels.
Current policies will lead to roughly 3 °C of warming, and backsliding of the sort we’re now seeing — for example, by the world’s largest historical polluter, the United States — could plausibly result in 4–5 °C of warming of the planet by the end of the century (C. R. Schwalm et al. Proc. Natl Acad. Sci. USA 117, 19656–19657; 2020).
climateactiontracker.org/glo…
doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2007117…
That’s enough warming to place our ‘planet on the brink’, to quote the title of a peer-reviewed assessment by me and more than a dozen other leading climate researchers, published the day after Gates’s memo (W. J. Ripple et al. Bioscience doi.org/qd3w; 2025). That report finds that 22 of 34 of “the planet’s vital signs are flashing red”.
doi.org/qd3w
Yet, the best available climate science suggests that it is not too late. The obstacles to limiting warming to below ever-more-dangerous levels remain political, rather than physical or technological.
livescience.com/planet-earth…
States now have a legal duty to prevent climate harm — justice is in reach
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
As I’m fond of saying, we must communicate both the urgency and the agency. As Schneider used to say: “The truth is bad enough.” We don’t have to exaggerate the threat to justify concerted action.
At the COP30 opening, UN secretary-general António Guterres issued a stark condemnation of the policymakers there who “remain captive to the fossil-fuel interests, rather than protecting the public interest”. Allowing warming to exceed the 1.5 °C danger level, he said, would constitute a “moral failure and deadly negligence”.
Perhaps even addressing Gates himself, Guterres added that “every fraction of a degree higher means more hunger, displacement and loss”. That obviously speaks to the urgency of action. But it’s also a reminder that every fraction of a degree of warming we prevent means tremendous amounts of avoided damage. That’s the agency we hold.
Nature 647, 561 (2025)
doi: doi.org/10.1038/d41586-025-0…
Bill Gates’s climate comments are a dangerous distraction
18NOV2025
By Michael E. Mann
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
People do not have to dismiss or exaggerate the climate threat to justify concerted action.
Democrats Will Be in Charge of Congress. Elizabeth Warren Has a Plan for That.
Listen · 4:07 min
By Shane Goldmacher
10NOV2026
NYT Gift Article link
nytimes.com/2026/11/10/us/po…
The Massachusetts senator said it is imperative that Democrats address economic pain after running campaigns that centered cost-of-living issues.
Senator Elizabeth Warren, Democrat of Massachusetts, has one big fear about her party’s newfound congressional majorities.
It is that Democrats, after campaigning on affordability, will shy away from pursuing a “full-throated” agenda of “economic populism” that delivers for frustrated voters.
Ms. Warren knows that President Trump can still veto any legislation he wants and that the filibuster remains an impediment. But she believes there are already some areas of common ground between his party and hers — such as limiting the role of private equity in buying up housing and capping credit card fees — and that Democrats must push through those bills and many more.
“If Democrats don’t deliver — or at least get caught trying — then it will be damned hard to go back to the American people and ask them to put us in charge again,” Ms. Warren said in an interview with The New York Times.
Ms. Warren, who ran for president in 2020 and remains one of the party’s leading voices on policy on the left, is set to deliver her vision for the next two years in a speech on Tuesday at Popular Mandate, a one-day conference of progressive groups in Washington.
Ms. Warren, whose unofficial slogan during her 2020 run was “I have a plan for that,” listed keeping private equity out of the housing market and capping credit card fees as issues that Mr. Trump has embraced previously and that Democrats support.
“It would be a tremendous breach of faith with Americans if Democrats spend the next few years railing against Trump and waiting for some future Democratic trifecta before we deliver real change,” she added.
That does not mean she wants a watered down approach.
In a copy of her prepared remarks provided in advance, Ms. Warren plans to mock the “self-titled ‘strategists’ in our party who are happy to have Democrats rail against billionaires at their rallies — but they expect softer, more middle-of-the-road, corporate-friendly economic policies once in office.”
In the interview, she said Democrats needed to dare Mr. Trump to veto some of the party’s popular priorities.
“He claims he wants to lower costs, then let’s put a lot of proposals in front of him,” she said, including raising the federal minimum wage, banning congressional stock trading and banning A.I. surveillance pricing, or the practice of using consumer data to generate personalized prices.
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Mr. Trump said in the wake of the election that he wanted to work with Democrats. Later in the week, however, he installed Stephen Miller, one of his most hard-line advisers, as chief of staff, a move that has been widely viewed as a sign of digging in for political warfare rather than preparing for legislative deal-making.
In January, Ms. Warren is set to become the chair of the Senate Banking Committee, and she vowed to use the powerful perch to go after bad actors in the financial industry.
“If you’ve been boosting your profits by cheating people, you should be scared,” she said of Wall Street.
She cited Mr. Trump’s financial foray into the crypto industry as something “that’s worth a look.” (Mr. Trump has dismissed concerns about financial conflicts, including on CBS’s “60 Minutes” on Sunday, saying “every president” faces such accusations.) Ms. Warren has remained deeply skeptical of cryptocurrency in general.
In fact, Ms. Warren struggled to name a single positive effect of crypto on the financial system.
“I’m still waiting for crypto to make that case,” she said. “They’ve had 18 years now to show the positive use case for crypto and it’s hard to see where that is.”
The one thing Ms. Warren did not want to discuss was whether Senator Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York, should be the next majority leader.
“Not today,” she said of that topic.
Shane Goldmacher is a Times national political correspondent.
See more on: Elizabeth Warren, Democratic Party
Read 601 comments
________________________________________
More on the 2026 Midterm Elections
________________________________________
White, Working-Class Voters: White voters without a college degree, a cornerstone of the Republican base in the Trump era, shifted left in the midterms. We asked them why.
nytimes.com/2026/11/07/us/po…
Republicans Point Fingers: Following their party’s huge midterm losses, Republicans have entered their most uncertain moment in years.
nytimes.com/2026/11/08/us/po…
Some have called for moderation and cleaning house, but that will be difficult with President Trump still in the White House.
Our Interview With Gina Hinojosa: The governor-elect helped break the Republican grip on Texas, but in her first interview with The Times since her victory, she made it clear that changing how the state was governed would not happen overnight.
nytimes.com/2026/11/08/us/gi…
10 Ads That Defined the Midterms: In a Democratic landslide election, here are the ads that stood out. Some were effective, while others backfired.
nytimes.com/2026/11/07/us/po…
Counting California’s Ballots: The state is once again processing mail ballots at a deliberate pace. Only about 65 percent of the votes had been tallied as of Thursday.
nytimes.com/2026/11/06/us/el…
Elon Musk: Behind the scenes, the world’s richest person spent a record amount over two years to bend the country’s politics to his will.
nytimes.com/2026/11/06/us/po…
He couldn’t.
Turning Point USA: Candidates backed by the right-wing activist group did not fare well, and the results set off recriminations from establishment Republicans.
nytimes.com/2026/11/07/us/tu…
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Democrats Will Be in Charge of Congress. Elizabeth Warren Has a Plan for That.
Listen · 4:07 min
By Shane Goldmacher
10NOV2026
NYT Gift Article link
nytimes.com/2026/11/10/us/po…
The Massachusetts senator said it is imperative that Democrats address economic pain after running campaigns that centered cost-of-living issues.
Senator Elizabeth Warren, Democrat of Massachusetts, has one big fear about her party’s newfound congressional majorities.
Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts is set to speak at a conference of progressive groups on Tuesday.
Credit...Valerie Plesch for The New York Times
Bill Gates, author of How to Avoid a Climate Disaster, now argues that the world’s fixation on emissions and temperature change is diverting money from saving lives.
via @Newsweek & @MichaelEMann
Congratulations @billgates, you're #1 on @Newsweek's list of climate delayers & deniers:
newsweek.com/revenge-of-clim…
The Biggest Surprise of Election Night
nytimes.com/video/opinion/10…
For the columnist Jamelle Bouie, the story of the midterm elections was a “transformation of the partisan landscape in the Deep South.”
In a live conversation for “The Opinions,” he breaks down the most surprising wins across the South and explains how the organizing power of Black voters is reshaping the region’s politics.
November 9, 2026
Transcript
The Biggest Surprise of Election Night
For the columnist Jamelle Bouie, the story of the midterm elections was a “transformation of the partisan landscape in the Deep South.”
In a live conversation for “The Opinions,” he breaks down the most surprising wins across the South and explains how the organizing power of Black voters is reshaping the region’s politics.
I think for me, the story of the night is the apparent kind of transformation of the partisan landscape in the Deep South.
And I don’t think — if you tell me today, if any of you people out there say to me tonight, oh, yeah, I totally thought Scott Colom was going to become a senator from Mississippi, I swear to God, I’ll be very upset.
No one could have predicted that.
That Louisiana was within a point or two. -Crazy.
-Even Florida.
I mean, Angie Nixon, who is a — came out of nowhere — extraordinarily talented politician and candidate, but is a self-identified member of the Democratic Socialists of America, comes within two points of winning in a state that has become over the past decade, like a sink for America’s chuddy as seniors.
So —— It’s going to be that kind of night. I can see.
So this is all to say that there were these things happening below the surface.
It isn’t just candidates.
It’s organizing.
It’s activity.
It’s the fact that Black voters in the Deep South responded to both the administration and the Supreme Court as if they were, and I’d say they were, existential threats to their political freedoms.
And what has happened is for the first time, really since the ’70s, there’s meaningful partisan competition in large parts of the South.
The Biggest Surprise of Election Night
nytimes.com/video/opinion/10…
For the columnist Jamelle Bouie, the story of the midterm elections was a “transformation of the partisan landscape in the Deep South.”
In a live conversation for “The Opinions,” he breaks down the most surprising wins across the South and explains how the organizing power of Black voters is reshaping the region’s politics.
November 9, 2026
Transcript
The Biggest Surprise of Election Night
For the columnist Jamelle Bouie, the story of the midterm elections was a “transformation of the partisan landscape in the Deep South.”
In a live conversation for “The Opinions,” he breaks down the most surprising wins across the South and explains how the organizing power of Black voters is reshaping the region’s politics.
I think for me, the story of the night is the apparent kind of transformation of the partisan landscape in the Deep South.
And I don’t think — if you tell me today, if any of you people out there say to me tonight, oh, yeah, I totally thought Scott Colom was going to become a senator from Mississippi, I swear to God, I’ll be very upset.
No one could have predicted that.
That Louisiana was within a point or two. -Crazy.
-Even Florida.
I mean, Angie Nixon, who is a — came out of nowhere — extraordinarily talented politician and candidate, but is a self-identified member of the Democratic Socialists of America, comes within two points of winning in a state that has become over the past decade, like a sink for America’s chuddy as seniors.
So —— It’s going to be that kind of night. I can see.
So this is all to say that there were these things happening below the surface.
It isn’t just candidates.
It’s organizing.
It’s activity.
It’s the fact that Black voters in the Deep South responded to both the administration and the Supreme Court as if they were, and I’d say they were, existential threats to their political freedoms.
And what has happened is for the first time, really since the ’70s, there’s meaningful partisan competition in large parts of the South.
California Voters Reject Billionaire Tax That Divided Democrats
Listen · 5:10 min
10NOV2026
By Laurel Rosenhall
NYT Gift Article link
nytimes.com/2026/11/09/us/ca…
Reporting from Sacramento
The outcome could hinder the wealth tax movement in California and across the country in future years.
California voters rejected a billionaire tax, The Associated Press determined on Monday, rebuking a measure that would have created the nation’s first wealth tax by targeting the assets of residents with a net worth beyond $1 billion.
nytimes.com/interactive/2026…
Under the tax measure, Proposition 40, the state would have imposed a one-time, 5 percent tax on the personal assets of billionaires and devoted most of the revenue to health care.
The Democratic voters who dominate the California electorate generally support the concept of making wealthy people pay higher taxes. But Democratic leaders were divided over the proposal — Gov. Gavin Newsom opposed it while the California Democratic Party endorsed the tax. And some of the California billionaires who stood to pay the tax contributed heavily toward a campaign that slammed the proposal with attack ads on TV throughout October.
Proposition 40 also suffered from having a weak coalition of supporters who could not compete with those ads and relied on cheaper methods, such as social media and influencer campaigns, to rally support.
The race was not called until almost a week after the election as California counted mail ballots at a deliberate pace. Though the vote gap shrank as more ballots were tallied, the measure ultimately failed to get enough support despite it being a hugely successful election for Democrats and left-leaning candidates.
As of Monday night, Proposition 40 only had 47 percent support with an estimated 83 percent of the votes counted.
The failure of the billionaire tax in California, a liberal state, is likely to be used as evidence for years to come that Americans will not stomach similar wealth taxes. The concept is expected to come up during the 2028 presidential campaign, and Mr. Newsom has already said he would be interested in a national wealth tax but not one only in his own state.
Supporters of the tax blamed the failure of Proposition 40 on their vast campaign spending disadvantage and considered the initiative’s failure a sign of oligarchic power.
During a news conference on election night, proponents pointed to the astronomical spending by the opposition, led by Sergey Brin, the Google co-founder who gave more than $100 million toward defeating the wealth tax. His group has raised more than $300 million this year, based on the most recent campaign finance records.
Dave Regan, the head of the health care workers’ union that put the tax on the ballot, said the billionaire-funded attacks produced “a lot of confusion and a lot of second-guessing among people who really in their hearts know what the right thing to do is.”
Mr. Regan vowed to pursue another billionaire tax in 2028.
His union had argued during the campaign that revenue from billionaires was necessary to offset cuts to health care programs that President Trump signed into law last year.
nytimes.com/2025/06/29/us/po…
Without the tax, millions of Californians would lose health insurance and hospitals would close, said the union, the Service Employees International Union-United Healthcare Workers West.
It garnered support from prominent liberal economists and national progressive leaders, including Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont, who called Proposition 40 “the most important ballot item in the country.”
But the measure divided labor unions and Democratic politicians in California.
nytimes.com/2026/10/23/us/se…
Mr. Newsom and Xavier Becerra, the Democrat who will replace him, opposed the tax, arguing that it would drive away entrepreneurs, and said a one-time surge in tax revenue wasn’t worth the potential long-term harm to the state budget.
nytimes.com/2026/01/13/us/ne…
Teachers, firefighters and Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California joined them in arguing that the tax would ultimately reduce the money available for many government services.
“You don’t pass a landmark progressive tax increase that is a change to how America has historically done anything by dividing up the progressive coalition,” said Thad Kousser, a political science professor at the University of California, San Diego.
He noted that the union behind the tax moved ahead with it before securing sufficient support from key allies. “The policy substance was much harder to sell because of this key strategic choice at the beginning to go it alone,” he said.
The billionaires have said very little publicly about their ballot efforts and have relied on Democratic-leaning organizations and Mr. Newsom to be the face of the opposition.
On behalf of doctors, the California Planned Parenthood branch, school boards and health clinics, opponents said voters made the right decision to protect California’s fiscal health and called the ballot initiative “a reckless experiment conducted on our state’s economy.”
Orlando Mayorquín contributed reporting from Los Angeles.
Laurel Rosenhall is a Sacramento-based reporter covering California politics and government for The Times.
Read 90 comments
________________________________________
More on the 2026 Midterm Elections
________________________________________
White, Working-Class Voters: White voters without a college degree, a cornerstone of the Republican base in the Trump era, shifted left in the midterms. We asked them why.
nytimes.com/2026/11/07/us/po…
Republicans Point Fingers: Following their party’s huge midterm losses, Republicans have entered their most uncertain moment in years.
nytimes.com/2026/11/08/us/po…
Some have called for moderation and cleaning house, but that will be difficult with President Trump still in the White House.
Our Interview With Gina Hinojosa: The governor-elect helped break the Republican grip on Texas, but in her first interview with The Times since her victory, she made it clear that changing how the state was governed would not happen overnight.
nytimes.com/2026/11/08/us/gi…
10 Ads That Defined the Midterms: In a Democratic landslide election, here are the ads that stood out. Some were effective, while others backfired.
nytimes.com/2026/11/07/us/po…
Counting California’s Ballots: The state is once again processing mail ballots at a deliberate pace. Only about 65 percent of the votes had been tallied as of Thursday.
nytimes.com/2026/11/06/us/el…
Elon Musk: Behind the scenes, the world’s richest person spent a record amount over two years to bend the country’s politics to his will. He couldn’t.
nytimes.com/2026/11/06/us/po…
Turning Point USA: Candidates backed by the right-wing activist group did not fare well, and the results set off recriminations from establishment Republicans.
nytimes.com/2026/11/07/us/tu…
California Voters Reject Billionaire Tax That Divided Democrats
Listen · 5:10 min
10NOV2026
By Laurel Rosenhall
NYT Gift Article link
nytimes.com/2026/11/09/us/ca…
Reporting from Sacramento
The outcome could hinder the wealth tax movement in California and across the country in future years.
California Voters Reject Billionaire Tax That Divided Democrats
Listen · 5:10 min
10NOV2026
By Laurel Rosenhall
NYT Gift Article link
nytimes.com/2026/11/09/us/ca…
Reporting from Sacramento
The outcome could hinder the wealth tax movement in California and across the country in future years.
California voters rejected a billionaire tax, The Associated Press determined on Monday, rebuking a measure that would have created the nation’s first wealth tax by targeting the assets of residents with a net worth beyond $1 billion.
nytimes.com/interactive/2026…
Under the tax measure, Proposition 40, the state would have imposed a one-time, 5 percent tax on the personal assets of billionaires and devoted most of the revenue to health care.
The Democratic voters who dominate the California electorate generally support the concept of making wealthy people pay higher taxes. But Democratic leaders were divided over the proposal — Gov. Gavin Newsom opposed it while the California Democratic Party endorsed the tax. And some of the California billionaires who stood to pay the tax contributed heavily toward a campaign that slammed the proposal with attack ads on TV throughout October.
Proposition 40 also suffered from having a weak coalition of supporters who could not compete with those ads and relied on cheaper methods, such as social media and influencer campaigns, to rally support.
The race was not called until almost a week after the election as California counted mail ballots at a deliberate pace. Though the vote gap shrank as more ballots were tallied, the measure ultimately failed to get enough support despite it being a hugely successful election for Democrats and left-leaning candidates.
As of Monday night, Proposition 40 only had 47 percent support with an estimated 83 percent of the votes counted.
The failure of the billionaire tax in California, a liberal state, is likely to be used as evidence for years to come that Americans will not stomach similar wealth taxes. The concept is expected to come up during the 2028 presidential campaign, and Mr. Newsom has already said he would be interested in a national wealth tax but not one only in his own state.
Supporters of the tax blamed the failure of Proposition 40 on their vast campaign spending disadvantage and considered the initiative’s failure a sign of oligarchic power.
During a news conference on election night, proponents pointed to the astronomical spending by the opposition, led by Sergey Brin, the Google co-founder who gave more than $100 million toward defeating the wealth tax. His group has raised more than $300 million this year, based on the most recent campaign finance records.
Dave Regan, the head of the health care workers’ union that put the tax on the ballot, said the billionaire-funded attacks produced “a lot of confusion and a lot of second-guessing among people who really in their hearts know what the right thing to do is.”
Mr. Regan vowed to pursue another billionaire tax in 2028.
His union had argued during the campaign that revenue from billionaires was necessary to offset cuts to health care programs that President Trump signed into law last year.
nytimes.com/2025/06/29/us/po…
Without the tax, millions of Californians would lose health insurance and hospitals would close, said the union, the Service Employees International Union-United Healthcare Workers West.
It garnered support from prominent liberal economists and national progressive leaders, including Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont, who called Proposition 40 “the most important ballot item in the country.”
But the measure divided labor unions and Democratic politicians in California.
nytimes.com/2026/10/23/us/se…
Mr. Newsom and Xavier Becerra, the Democrat who will replace him, opposed the tax, arguing that it would drive away entrepreneurs, and said a one-time surge in tax revenue wasn’t worth the potential long-term harm to the state budget.
nytimes.com/2026/01/13/us/ne…
Teachers, firefighters and Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California joined them in arguing that the tax would ultimately reduce the money available for many government services.
“You don’t pass a landmark progressive tax increase that is a change to how America has historically done anything by dividing up the progressive coalition,” said Thad Kousser, a political science professor at the University of California, San Diego.
He noted that the union behind the tax moved ahead with it before securing sufficient support from key allies. “The policy substance was much harder to sell because of this key strategic choice at the beginning to go it alone,” he said.
The billionaires have said very little publicly about their ballot efforts and have relied on Democratic-leaning organizations and Mr. Newsom to be the face of the opposition.
On behalf of doctors, the California Planned Parenthood branch, school boards and health clinics, opponents said voters made the right decision to protect California’s fiscal health and called the ballot initiative “a reckless experiment conducted on our state’s economy.”
Orlando Mayorquín contributed reporting from Los Angeles.
Laurel Rosenhall is a Sacramento-based reporter covering California politics and government for The Times.
Read 90 comments
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More on the 2026 Midterm Elections
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Turning Point USA: Candidates backed by the right-wing activist group did not fare well, and the results set off recriminations from establishment Republicans.
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California Voters Reject Billionaire Tax That Divided Democrats
Listen · 5:10 min
10NOV2026
By Laurel Rosenhall
NYT Gift Article link
nytimes.com/2026/11/09/us/ca…
Reporting from Sacramento
The outcome could hinder the wealth tax movement in California and across the country in future years.
"Hatemonger" as Chief of Staff: Trump Taps Stephen Miller to Top Role After Massive Election Defeat
Transcript 0:00 to 15:46 end
Democracy Now!
09NOV2026
youtube.com/watch?v=Q3LM7E_G…
Stephen Miller, the architect of the Trump administration's mass deportation policies, has replaced Susie Wiles as White House chief of staff.
In a recent 60 Minutes interview, President Donald Trump acknowledged that his immigration policies may be "too tough" and contributed to his party's steep losses in the midterm elections, but in elevating Miller, he is "choosing to double down," says journalist Jean Guerrero.
"Stephen Miller enables [Trump] in this instinct to choose cruelty over everything else," she says.
Guerrero is a New York Times contributing opinion writer, USC journalism professor and author of Hatemonger: Stephen Miller, Donald Trump, and the White Nationalist Agenda.
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Search transcript
Chapter 1: Stephen Miller's promotion
0:00
0 s
White House advisor Steven Miller starts his new job today as President Trump's
0:07
7 s
chief of staff, replacing Susie Wilds following sweeping Republican losses in last week's historic midterm elections.
0:17
17 s
Miller is the chief architect of Trump's zero tolerance immigration crackdown.
0:21
21 s
Trump's decision to promote Miller is widely seen as a signal the president will double down on his agenda despite
0:28
28 s
the rebuke from voters. Trump praised Miller Friday. Stephen has been with me from beginning.
0:36
36 s
He gets it very good politically and he's a very good man. He'll do a great job. Great manager. Just wanted to make a change. Um I think Susie's done a very
0:46
46 s
good job. Great job. But I just wanted to make it even been great and uh
0:53
53 s
we got to make we got to make Democratic Congress member Robert Garcia, the ranking member on the House
Chapter 2: Political backlash
1:01
1 m, 1 s
Oversight Committee who will lead that committee next term, spoke to CNN over the weekend.
1:08
1 m, 8 s
Steven Miller is the architect of this horrific unjust policy happening across the country in the way that we are treating folks. Steven Miller called
1:17
1 m, 17 s
Alex Party, as we know, an assassin. The way that he is going around creating immigration policy that separates families, that is causing people harm,
1:24
1 m, 24 s
that's creating a detention process where a few large companies are profiting, the unconstitutional detention of people, the way that folks
1:32
1 m, 32 s
are losing their due process rights, that has to be investigated. And we know that Steven Miller has been an architect of that. And so what's happening there,
1:39
1 m, 39 s
what's happening in Iran, Steven Miller is at the center of the major policy decisions that are happening in the administration. And so it does deserve oversight and investigation.
1:49
1 m, 49 s
Congress member Garcia also said in a statement, "Steven Miller should lawyer up to which Todd Blanch, the attorney
1:58
1 m, 58 s
general, said he is his lawyer." According to the New York Times, just one day after the election, Steven
2:05
2 m, 5 s
Miller called national security officials to push forward with the immigration crackdown. For more, we go
Chapter 3: Analyzing the appointment
2:12
2 m, 12 s
now to Los Angeles where we're joined by Jean Guerrero, author of Hatemonger, Steven Miller, Donald Trump, and the
2:19
2 m, 19 s
white nationalist agenda. She's also a contributing opinion writer at the New York Times and an associate professor at
2:26
2 m, 26 s
the USC, the University of Southern California, Annenburgg School for Communication and Journalism. Jean Guerrero, welcome back to Democracy Now.
2:35
2 m, 35 s
Can you share your response when you heard that after the massive Republican midterm defeat, the response of the
2:44
2 m, 44 s
president, even though he has said over the weekend he didn't think it was the Iran war, but his crackdown on
2:51
2 m, 51 s
immigrants, that he has chosen Steven Miller who symbolized that crackdown on immigrants.
2:59
2 m, 59 s
Yes, thanks for having me, Amy. This decision is not at all surprising to me given that Steven Miller, as we all
3:06
3 m, 6 s
know, is the most effective sycopant in the Trump administration. As Trump himself said, he's one of his longest
3:13
3 m, 13 s
lasting advisers, one of his most trusted adviserss. But it is a deeply disturbing decision because Miller is
3:21
3 m, 21 s
one of the most troubled and one of the most dangerous individuals in this White House. He is responsible for federal
3:29
3 m, 29 s
agents being unleashed in communities across the United States to target people based on their race and based on
3:36
3 m, 36 s
their language. He had federal agents go into workplaces, into construction sites, into home depots, into farms, um
3:46
3 m, 46 s
which devastated communities economically as well as psychologically and spiritually. Um but to me this is
3:55
3 m, 55 s
indicative of the fact that Trump is choosing to double down. Um which is an instinct that he shares with Steven Miller and which Steven Miller enables
4:04
4 m, 4 s
him in uh this this instinct to choose uh cruelty over everything else and and to just I think Trump hopes that Miller
4:12
4 m, 12 s
is going to get him out of this mess. Um because in the past when he has gone with Miller's uh decisions to use the
4:21
4 m, 21 s
scapegoating of immigrants to rally the base, it has worked. But this war on immigrants has reached a level that has horrified the American public. And I I
4:29
4 m, 29 s
really don't believe it's going to work this time. Steven Miller is not going to get Trump out of this mess.
Chapter 4: Miller's extremist influence
4:35
4 m, 35 s
So if you can start off, I mean, you wrote a whole book, Jean, on Steven Miller called Hatemonger. Why you
4:42
4 m, 42 s
decided to do that? I mean, yes. In the subtitle, it's Stephen Miller and Donald Trump. But give us a short history of who he is.
4:54
4 m, 54 s
Yeah. Steven Miller grew up in Santa Monica, California, which is known as a liberal progressive community. Um, and
5:01
5 m, 1 s
he is in many ways a a product of liberal hypocrisy. He saw um the hypocrisy of democratic leaders in in in
5:08
5 m, 8 s
California and how often their uh support for immigrant rights and social justice was was often performative. And
5:16
5 m, 16 s
he decided to um to to exploit that uh to rise in political power. And he was
5:24
5 m, 24 s
mentored by individuals who believe that war needs that that politics needs to be a form of warfare. Um, and I chose to
5:33
5 m, 33 s
write this book and to investigate Steven Miller because I was an immigration reporter and I was seeing the impact of the first Trump
5:41
5 m, 41 s
administration's policies on families at the border. Um, the administration kept saying that they were going after criminals that that if if you didn't
5:50
5 m, 50 s
want to be targeted by the family separations, you just had to follow the law. But I was talking to people who were having one-year-old babies ripped
5:57
5 m, 57 s
out of their arms after having presented at ports of entry legally. So I wanted to understand if this wasn't about the law, if this wasn't about law and order,
6:06
6 m, 6 s
which the administration was claiming that it was and it clearly wasn't, then what was it about? And to me, I felt that I had to understand Steven Miller.
6:12
6 m, 12 s
And what I understood is that at the end of the day, this was about re-engineering the racial demographics of this country. That is why Steven
6:21
6 m, 21 s
Miller during the first administration focused on strangling legal pathways into this country. Whether it was gutting the asylum system, the refugee
6:29
6 m, 29 s
system, restricting green card access for the poor, this was never about going after criminals, it was about changing
6:37
6 m, 37 s
what America is and who is allowed to come here. And that is why during this administration, they have focused on
6:44
6 m, 44 s
invading American cities to pursue operations that amount to ethnic cleansing. and these operations he he
6:53
6 m, 53 s
has told federal agents they can act with with immunity which is why you saw the killings uh across the United States
7:00
7 m
of citizens and non-citizens alike. Um and I think this was deliberate. I mean, Steven Miller, one thing that people
7:07
7 m, 7 s
need to understand about Steven Miller is that he is above all a sadist. And there's one group of people that he
7:16
7 m, 16 s
despises more than immigrants, and that is the allies, the citizen allies of immigrants, people who choose compassion and who choose to stand up for their
7:24
7 m, 24 s
neighbors. Um he he was shaped by this book called The Camp of the Saints. Uh which um basically the heroes of this
7:34
7 m, 34 s
book are people who call for genocide of brown immigrants who are cast as a threat to civilization. And the worst
7:40
7 m, 40 s
villains are not the immigrants but the citizen allies who stand up for their neighbors. And so I think Miller has
7:48
7 m, 48 s
this profound hostility for immigrants of color and we've seen that. Um, but he also, and I think this is what we're
7:56
7 m, 56 s
going to see in the coming two years, has has a deep deep loathing for the people who use their privilege and who use their power to stand up for those
8:04
8 m, 4 s
who are being persecuted. He despises that. And he is going to use the powers that he now has to target and to
8:13
8 m, 13 s
terrorize and to torture not only immigrant communities, but their allies, people who are citizens who are who
8:20
8 m, 20 s
believe in welcoming the stranger. You said the book is The Camp of the Saints.
Chapter 5: Contradictions in policy
8:25
8 m, 25 s
I wanted to ask you about President Trump, who sat down for an interview on CBS's 60 M following the widespread Republican defeat in the
8:34
8 m, 34 s
midterm uh elections. Trump made these remarks about his immigration raids and deportations.
8:43
8 m, 43 s
So, you think your deportation policy went too far? It was too tough.
8:47
8 m, 47 s
I think it might be too tough. Yeah. And a lot of people would say that it's great, but a lot of people think it's too tough.
8:55
8 m, 55 s
What does the deal look like?
8:56
8 m, 56 s
I think ultimately that hurt me. But there's a group of people that I would say on the sort of pretty far right that
9:04
9 m, 4 s
would like everybody taken out. There's a group of people.
9:06
9 m, 6 s
Do any of those people work in your administration? Are they in the building with us right now?
9:11
9 m, 11 s
No. No. Well, there are a lot of those people. [clears throat] So, this is very interesting. Jean Guerrero. On the one hand, you have Vice
9:18
9 m, 18 s
President Vance uh putting out a statement after the midterm saying the war did the Republicans in. Trump has
9:26
9 m, 26 s
refuted this, but then went on to say it was the immigration crackdown and appoint Steven Miller, the symbol and
9:36
9 m, 36 s
architect of that, um as his chief of staff. Can you explain?
9:42
9 m, 42 s
He he Trump is trying to play both sides. He he's trying to exploit the echo chambers. He's hoping one group of people will will receive one piece of
9:50
9 m, 50 s
information and the others will receive the other. But this is clearly contradictory. He has chosen to elevate Steven Miller who for his entire life
9:59
9 m, 59 s
has expressed deep antagonism for immigrants who are here whether they're legally here, whether they came here and don't have status.
10:09
10 m, 9 s
One thing that that I included in my book that I want to talk about is that Stephen Miller from the time he was in high school and throughout college, he
10:17
10 m, 17 s
would disparage um custodial staff and he would throw his food on the on the ground. He would leave his trash out and
10:26
10 m, 26 s
he would say, "Why do I have to pick up my trash when there are people here to do it for me?" Um and and so what's
10:34
10 m, 34 s
really interesting is that Steven Miller is somebody who I think that during the first administration was primarily
10:42
10 m, 42 s
motivated by the his restrictionist beliefs and his desire to racially re-engineer this country as I mentioned.
10:48
10 m, 48 s
But during this administration we are seeing something else. I mean you're pointing out a really interesting contradiction Amy. There's another
10:55
10 m, 55 s
really interesting contradiction which is that while they are deporting longtime undocumented immigrants who've
11:03
11 m, 3 s
been contributing to this country and who've accumulated some level of power in the form of US citizen children, in the form of jobs, in the form of
11:11
11 m, 11 s
neighbors who care about them, they are pursuing a foreign policy that is displacing
11:18
11 m, 18 s
masses of people across Latin America, across the Middle East. And Steven Miller has been one of the most vocal
11:26
11 m, 26 s
propon proponents of Trump's foreign interventions and invasions.
11:32
11 m, 32 s
And what I think is happening here, it sounds contradictory, but at the end of the day, it boils down to who Miller was as a teenager, which is somebody who
11:41
11 m, 41 s
did didn't mind immigrants being around so long as they served say they were serving him without
11:48
11 m, 48 s
complaint so long as he could subjugate them. They are eliminating people who have deep roots here and what they are
11:55
11 m, 55 s
doing is displacing people who have no roots here who are ultimately going to come here. And so I think at the end of the day, Steven Miller and Trump are
12:04
12 m, 4 s
exactly who they've been criticizing all along. They are transnational. They are in alliance with transnational corporate
12:11
12 m, 11 s
elites who are displacing people across the country. Um and and I think people need are starting to understand that this is one of the reasons that we saw this blue wave in in the midterms.
Chapter 6: Countering the agenda
12:22
12 m, 22 s
Jean Guerrero, you just finished leading a program at USC Anenburgg that's geared to change the immigration debate by the next uh presidential election in 2028.
12:34
12 m, 34 s
Can you talk about this program, our unsilencing the sons of Lorenzo Salgado Aralo
12:42
12 m, 42 s
participated? the man, 52year-old father, Mexican father who was shot to
12:49
12 m, 49 s
death by an immigration agent in Houston uh July 7th.
12:55
12 m, 55 s
Yes. So I have been using my knowledge of Miller's playbook and the impact that he had on the immigration debate debate
13:03
13 m, 3 s
to build a counter movement and this is what the boot camp is is about. We are empowering individuals who have been
13:10
13 m, 10 s
overlooked and who have not been at the center of the immigration debate to be at the center of the immigration debate.
13:17
13 m, 17 s
We're training them how to tell their own stories on their own terms. um and how to do so in a way that's well researched, that's grounded in tying
13:25
13 m, 25 s
their experiences to specific calls to action, that's grounded in in knowledge of the history of how personal testimony
13:32
13 m, 32 s
has transformed social movements um in the United States and also in a way that's strategic in the immigration
13:40
13 m, 40 s
debate. And so we have people who have different levels of experience. Um the sons of Lorenzo Salvado came with more experience. They've been doing an
13:48
13 m, 48 s
amazing job, but everybody left knowing that they um that they're going to be
13:56
13 m, 56 s
central in changing the course of US history. And I think everybody listening has a role to play. Um we all need to be talking about the war on immigrants as a
14:05
14 m, 5 s
war on people power because that is what it is. And I think people are starting to realize that the war on immigrants,
14:11
14 m, 11 s
which is pouring billions of taxpayer dollars into jailing and displacing
14:18
14 m, 18 s
valued community members. And and and ultimately it is a war on on labor. It
14:25
14 m, 25 s
is a war on civil and constitutional rights. And we need to demand the de the Democrats with their new majorities.
14:32
14 m, 32 s
Yes, it's important that they that they hold the Trump administration accountable, but if they are not also prioritizing
14:40
14 m, 40 s
um legislation on this issue on the war on immigrants, then they're going to come off as completely disingenu
14:47
14 m, 47 s
disingenuous. They need to pursue legislation to abolish ICE and we need to demand that they do that. We need ICE
14:56
14 m, 56 s
out of our cities and we need also to prioritize legislation for the longtime undocumented population. You cannot have
15:04
15 m, 4 s
a sector of the working population that is criminalized and subjugated because when you have that then you are able to
15:11
15 m, 11 s
exploit the entire working class. And that is what this has always been about.
15:16
15 m, 16 s
And that is what this boot camp is is determined to infuse into the public imagination that the war on immigrants
15:23
15 m, 23 s
is a war on you. It is a war on everybody in this country and we are going to expose it for what it is.
15:29
15 m, 29 s
Gene Geredto, I want to thank you for being with us. Author of Hatemonger, Steven Miller, Donald Trump and the white nationalist agenda.
15:37
15 m, 37 s
Thanks for watching Democracy Now on YouTube. Subscribe to the channel and turn on notifications to make sure you never miss a video. And for more of our
15:46
15 m, 46 s
audience supported journalism, go to democracynow.org or where you can download our news app, sign up for our newsletter, subscribe to the daily podcast, and so much more.
Sync to video time
"Hatemonger" as Chief of Staff: Trump Taps Stephen Miller to Top Role After Massive Election Defeat
Transcript 0:00 to 15:46 end
Democracy Now!
09NOV2026 Latest Shows
youtube.com/playlist?list=PL…
youtube.com/watch?v=Q3LM7E_G…
Stephen Miller, the architect of the Trump administration's mass deportation policies, has replaced Susie Wiles as White House chief of staff.
"Hatemonger" as Chief of Staff: Trump Taps Stephen Miller to Top Role After Massive Election Defeat
Transcript 0:00 to 15:46 end
Democracy Now!
09NOV2026 Latest Shows
youtube.com/playlist?list=PL…
youtube.com/watch?v=Q3LM7E_G…
Stephen Miller, the architect of the Trump administration's mass deportation policies, has replaced Susie Wiles as White House chief of staff.
In a recent 60 Minutes interview, President Donald Trump acknowledged that his immigration policies may be "too tough" and contributed to his party's steep losses in the midterm elections, but in elevating Miller, he is "choosing to double down," says journalist Jean Guerrero.
"Stephen Miller enables [Trump] in this instinct to choose cruelty over everything else," she says.
Guerrero is a New York Times contributing opinion writer, USC journalism professor and author of Hatemonger: Stephen Miller, Donald Trump, and the White Nationalist Agenda.
Ask
Get answers, explore topics, and more
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Search transcript
Chapter 1: Stephen Miller's promotion
0:00
0 s
White House advisor Steven Miller starts his new job today as President Trump's
0:07
7 s
chief of staff, replacing Susie Wilds following sweeping Republican losses in last week's historic midterm elections.
0:17
17 s
Miller is the chief architect of Trump's zero tolerance immigration crackdown.
0:21
21 s
Trump's decision to promote Miller is widely seen as a signal the president will double down on his agenda despite
0:28
28 s
the rebuke from voters. Trump praised Miller Friday. Stephen has been with me from beginning.
0:36
36 s
He gets it very good politically and he's a very good man. He'll do a great job. Great manager. Just wanted to make a change. Um I think Susie's done a very
0:46
46 s
good job. Great job. But I just wanted to make it even been great and uh
0:53
53 s
we got to make we got to make Democratic Congress member Robert Garcia, the ranking member on the House
Chapter 2: Political backlash
1:01
1 m, 1 s
Oversight Committee who will lead that committee next term, spoke to CNN over the weekend.
1:08
1 m, 8 s
Steven Miller is the architect of this horrific unjust policy happening across the country in the way that we are treating folks. Steven Miller called
1:17
1 m, 17 s
Alex Party, as we know, an assassin. The way that he is going around creating immigration policy that separates families, that is causing people harm,
1:24
1 m, 24 s
that's creating a detention process where a few large companies are profiting, the unconstitutional detention of people, the way that folks
1:32
1 m, 32 s
are losing their due process rights, that has to be investigated. And we know that Steven Miller has been an architect of that. And so what's happening there,
1:39
1 m, 39 s
what's happening in Iran, Steven Miller is at the center of the major policy decisions that are happening in the administration. And so it does deserve oversight and investigation.
1:49
1 m, 49 s
Congress member Garcia also said in a statement, "Steven Miller should lawyer up to which Todd Blanch, the attorney
1:58
1 m, 58 s
general, said he is his lawyer." According to the New York Times, just one day after the election, Steven
2:05
2 m, 5 s
Miller called national security officials to push forward with the immigration crackdown. For more, we go
Chapter 3: Analyzing the appointment
2:12
2 m, 12 s
now to Los Angeles where we're joined by Jean Guerrero, author of Hatemonger, Steven Miller, Donald Trump, and the
2:19
2 m, 19 s
white nationalist agenda. She's also a contributing opinion writer at the New York Times and an associate professor at
2:26
2 m, 26 s
the USC, the University of Southern California, Annenburgg School for Communication and Journalism. Jean Guerrero, welcome back to Democracy Now.
2:35
2 m, 35 s
Can you share your response when you heard that after the massive Republican midterm defeat, the response of the
2:44
2 m, 44 s
president, even though he has said over the weekend he didn't think it was the Iran war, but his crackdown on
2:51
2 m, 51 s
immigrants, that he has chosen Steven Miller who symbolized that crackdown on immigrants.
2:59
2 m, 59 s
Yes, thanks for having me, Amy. This decision is not at all surprising to me given that Steven Miller, as we all
3:06
3 m, 6 s
know, is the most effective sycopant in the Trump administration. As Trump himself said, he's one of his longest
3:13
3 m, 13 s
lasting advisers, one of his most trusted adviserss. But it is a deeply disturbing decision because Miller is
3:21
3 m, 21 s
one of the most troubled and one of the most dangerous individuals in this White House. He is responsible for federal
3:29
3 m, 29 s
agents being unleashed in communities across the United States to target people based on their race and based on
3:36
3 m, 36 s
their language. He had federal agents go into workplaces, into construction sites, into home depots, into farms, um
3:46
3 m, 46 s
which devastated communities economically as well as psychologically and spiritually. Um but to me this is
3:55
3 m, 55 s
indicative of the fact that Trump is choosing to double down. Um which is an instinct that he shares with Steven Miller and which Steven Miller enables
4:04
4 m, 4 s
him in uh this this instinct to choose uh cruelty over everything else and and to just I think Trump hopes that Miller
4:12
4 m, 12 s
is going to get him out of this mess. Um because in the past when he has gone with Miller's uh decisions to use the
4:21
4 m, 21 s
scapegoating of immigrants to rally the base, it has worked. But this war on immigrants has reached a level that has horrified the American public. And I I
4:29
4 m, 29 s
really don't believe it's going to work this time. Steven Miller is not going to get Trump out of this mess.
Chapter 4: Miller's extremist influence
4:35
4 m, 35 s
So if you can start off, I mean, you wrote a whole book, Jean, on Steven Miller called Hatemonger. Why you
4:42
4 m, 42 s
decided to do that? I mean, yes. In the subtitle, it's Stephen Miller and Donald Trump. But give us a short history of who he is.
4:54
4 m, 54 s
Yeah. Steven Miller grew up in Santa Monica, California, which is known as a liberal progressive community. Um, and
5:01
5 m, 1 s
he is in many ways a a product of liberal hypocrisy. He saw um the hypocrisy of democratic leaders in in in
5:08
5 m, 8 s
California and how often their uh support for immigrant rights and social justice was was often performative. And
5:16
5 m, 16 s
he decided to um to to exploit that uh to rise in political power. And he was
5:24
5 m, 24 s
mentored by individuals who believe that war needs that that politics needs to be a form of warfare. Um, and I chose to
5:33
5 m, 33 s
write this book and to investigate Steven Miller because I was an immigration reporter and I was seeing the impact of the first Trump
5:41
5 m, 41 s
administration's policies on families at the border. Um, the administration kept saying that they were going after criminals that that if if you didn't
5:50
5 m, 50 s
want to be targeted by the family separations, you just had to follow the law. But I was talking to people who were having one-year-old babies ripped
5:57
5 m, 57 s
out of their arms after having presented at ports of entry legally. So I wanted to understand if this wasn't about the law, if this wasn't about law and order,
6:06
6 m, 6 s
which the administration was claiming that it was and it clearly wasn't, then what was it about? And to me, I felt that I had to understand Steven Miller.
6:12
6 m, 12 s
And what I understood is that at the end of the day, this was about re-engineering the racial demographics of this country. That is why Steven
6:21
6 m, 21 s
Miller during the first administration focused on strangling legal pathways into this country. Whether it was gutting the asylum system, the refugee
6:29
6 m, 29 s
system, restricting green card access for the poor, this was never about going after criminals, it was about changing
6:37
6 m, 37 s
what America is and who is allowed to come here. And that is why during this administration, they have focused on
6:44
6 m, 44 s
invading American cities to pursue operations that amount to ethnic cleansing. and these operations he he
6:53
6 m, 53 s
has told federal agents they can act with with immunity which is why you saw the killings uh across the United States
7:00
7 m
of citizens and non-citizens alike. Um and I think this was deliberate. I mean, Steven Miller, one thing that people
7:07
7 m, 7 s
need to understand about Steven Miller is that he is above all a sadist. And there's one group of people that he
7:16
7 m, 16 s
despises more than immigrants, and that is the allies, the citizen allies of immigrants, people who choose compassion and who choose to stand up for their
7:24
7 m, 24 s
neighbors. Um he he was shaped by this book called The Camp of the Saints. Uh which um basically the heroes of this
7:34
7 m, 34 s
book are people who call for genocide of brown immigrants who are cast as a threat to civilization. And the worst
7:40
7 m, 40 s
villains are not the immigrants but the citizen allies who stand up for their neighbors. And so I think Miller has
7:48
7 m, 48 s
this profound hostility for immigrants of color and we've seen that. Um, but he also, and I think this is what we're
7:56
7 m, 56 s
going to see in the coming two years, has has a deep deep loathing for the people who use their privilege and who use their power to stand up for those
8:04
8 m, 4 s
who are being persecuted. He despises that. And he is going to use the powers that he now has to target and to
8:13
8 m, 13 s
terrorize and to torture not only immigrant communities, but their allies, people who are citizens who are who
8:20
8 m, 20 s
believe in welcoming the stranger. You said the book is The Camp of the Saints.
Chapter 5: Contradictions in policy
8:25
8 m, 25 s
I wanted to ask you about President Trump, who sat down for an interview on CBS's 60 M following the widespread Republican defeat in the
8:34
8 m, 34 s
midterm uh elections. Trump made these remarks about his immigration raids and deportations.
8:43
8 m, 43 s
So, you think your deportation policy went too far? It was too tough.
8:47
8 m, 47 s
I think it might be too tough. Yeah. And a lot of people would say that it's great, but a lot of people think it's too tough.
8:55
8 m, 55 s
What does the deal look like?
8:56
8 m, 56 s
I think ultimately that hurt me. But there's a group of people that I would say on the sort of pretty far right that
9:04
9 m, 4 s
would like everybody taken out. There's a group of people.
9:06
9 m, 6 s
Do any of those people work in your administration? Are they in the building with us right now?
9:11
9 m, 11 s
No. No. Well, there are a lot of those people. [clears throat] So, this is very interesting. Jean Guerrero. On the one hand, you have Vice
9:18
9 m, 18 s
President Vance uh putting out a statement after the midterm saying the war did the Republicans in. Trump has
9:26
9 m, 26 s
refuted this, but then went on to say it was the immigration crackdown and appoint Steven Miller, the symbol and
9:36
9 m, 36 s
architect of that, um as his chief of staff. Can you explain?
9:42
9 m, 42 s
He he Trump is trying to play both sides. He he's trying to exploit the echo chambers. He's hoping one group of people will will receive one piece of
9:50
9 m, 50 s
information and the others will receive the other. But this is clearly contradictory. He has chosen to elevate Steven Miller who for his entire life
9:59
9 m, 59 s
has expressed deep antagonism for immigrants who are here whether they're legally here, whether they came here and don't have status.
10:09
10 m, 9 s
One thing that that I included in my book that I want to talk about is that Stephen Miller from the time he was in high school and throughout college, he
10:17
10 m, 17 s
would disparage um custodial staff and he would throw his food on the on the ground. He would leave his trash out and
10:26
10 m, 26 s
he would say, "Why do I have to pick up my trash when there are people here to do it for me?" Um and and so what's
10:34
10 m, 34 s
really interesting is that Steven Miller is somebody who I think that during the first administration was primarily
10:42
10 m, 42 s
motivated by the his restrictionist beliefs and his desire to racially re-engineer this country as I mentioned.
10:48
10 m, 48 s
But during this administration we are seeing something else. I mean you're pointing out a really interesting contradiction Amy. There's another
10:55
10 m, 55 s
really interesting contradiction which is that while they are deporting longtime undocumented immigrants who've
11:03
11 m, 3 s
been contributing to this country and who've accumulated some level of power in the form of US citizen children, in the form of jobs, in the form of
11:11
11 m, 11 s
neighbors who care about them, they are pursuing a foreign policy that is displacing
11:18
11 m, 18 s
masses of people across Latin America, across the Middle East. And Steven Miller has been one of the most vocal
11:26
11 m, 26 s
propon proponents of Trump's foreign interventions and invasions.
11:32
11 m, 32 s
And what I think is happening here, it sounds contradictory, but at the end of the day, it boils down to who Miller was as a teenager, which is somebody who
11:41
11 m, 41 s
did didn't mind immigrants being around so long as they served say they were serving him without
11:48
11 m, 48 s
complaint so long as he could subjugate them. They are eliminating people who have deep roots here and what they are
11:55
11 m, 55 s
doing is displacing people who have no roots here who are ultimately going to come here. And so I think at the end of the day, Steven Miller and Trump are
12:04
12 m, 4 s
exactly who they've been criticizing all along. They are transnational. They are in alliance with transnational corporate
12:11
12 m, 11 s
elites who are displacing people across the country. Um and and I think people need are starting to understand that this is one of the reasons that we saw this blue wave in in the midterms.
Chapter 6: Countering the agenda
12:22
12 m, 22 s
Jean Guerrero, you just finished leading a program at USC Anenburgg that's geared to change the immigration debate by the next uh presidential election in 2028.
12:34
12 m, 34 s
Can you talk about this program, our unsilencing the sons of Lorenzo Salgado Aralo
12:42
12 m, 42 s
participated? the man, 52year-old father, Mexican father who was shot to
12:49
12 m, 49 s
death by an immigration agent in Houston uh July 7th.
12:55
12 m, 55 s
Yes. So I have been using my knowledge of Miller's playbook and the impact that he had on the immigration debate debate
13:03
13 m, 3 s
to build a counter movement and this is what the boot camp is is about. We are empowering individuals who have been
13:10
13 m, 10 s
overlooked and who have not been at the center of the immigration debate to be at the center of the immigration debate.
13:17
13 m, 17 s
We're training them how to tell their own stories on their own terms. um and how to do so in a way that's well researched, that's grounded in tying
13:25
13 m, 25 s
their experiences to specific calls to action, that's grounded in in knowledge of the history of how personal testimony
13:32
13 m, 32 s
has transformed social movements um in the United States and also in a way that's strategic in the immigration
13:40
13 m, 40 s
debate. And so we have people who have different levels of experience. Um the sons of Lorenzo Salvado came with more experience. They've been doing an
13:48
13 m, 48 s
amazing job, but everybody left knowing that they um that they're going to be
13:56
13 m, 56 s
central in changing the course of US history. And I think everybody listening has a role to play. Um we all need to be talking about the war on immigrants as a
14:05
14 m, 5 s
war on people power because that is what it is. And I think people are starting to realize that the war on immigrants,
14:11
14 m, 11 s
which is pouring billions of taxpayer dollars into jailing and displacing
14:18
14 m, 18 s
valued community members. And and and ultimately it is a war on on labor. It
14:25
14 m, 25 s
is a war on civil and constitutional rights. And we need to demand the de the Democrats with their new majorities.
14:32
14 m, 32 s
Yes, it's important that they that they hold the Trump administration accountable, but if they are not also prioritizing
14:40
14 m, 40 s
um legislation on this issue on the war on immigrants, then they're going to come off as completely disingenu
14:47
14 m, 47 s
disingenuous. They need to pursue legislation to abolish ICE and we need to demand that they do that. We need ICE
14:56
14 m, 56 s
out of our cities and we need also to prioritize legislation for the longtime undocumented population. You cannot have
15:04
15 m, 4 s
a sector of the working population that is criminalized and subjugated because when you have that then you are able to
15:11
15 m, 11 s
exploit the entire working class. And that is what this has always been about.
15:16
15 m, 16 s
And that is what this boot camp is is determined to infuse into the public imagination that the war on immigrants
15:23
15 m, 23 s
is a war on you. It is a war on everybody in this country and we are going to expose it for what it is.
15:29
15 m, 29 s
Gene Geredto, I want to thank you for being with us. Author of Hatemonger, Steven Miller, Donald Trump and the white nationalist agenda.
15:37
15 m, 37 s
Thanks for watching Democracy Now on YouTube. Subscribe to the channel and turn on notifications to make sure you never miss a video. And for more of our
15:46
15 m, 46 s
audience supported journalism, go to democracynow.org or where you can download our news app, sign up for our newsletter, subscribe to the daily podcast, and so much more.
Sync to video time
"Hatemonger" as Chief of Staff: Trump Taps Stephen Miller to Top Role After Massive Election Defeat
Transcript 0:00 to 15:46 end
Democracy Now!
09NOV2026 Latest Shows
youtube.com/playlist?list=PL…
youtube.com/watch?v=Q3LM7E_G…
Stephen Miller, the architect of the Trump administration's mass deportation policies, has replaced Susie Wiles as White House chief of staff.
Nature has rights — it is time the world recognized them
08OCT2026
By Juan Carlos Navarro & Callie Veelenturf
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
Existing legal frameworks have not halted planetary crises.
Recognizing the rights of nature could offer a different path.
Wildfires, heatwaves and unprecedented weather events are no longer breaking news, they’re our permanent backdrop.
Yet again this year, we are facing the grave effects of a climate system that we have destabilized.
We are watching the world experience painful and deadly climate extremes, while our collective response remains ‘too little, too late’.
Although we’re in need of hope, hope is never a plan. As a global society and as citizens of Earth, we urgently need a tangible shift in how our legal systems treat the living world.
Recognizing the universal rights of nature is the answer.
The natural world has too few legal protections.
Credit: Damocean/Getty
Nature has rights — it is time the world recognized them
08OCT2026
By Juan Carlos Navarro & Callie Veelenturf
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
Existing legal frameworks have not halted planetary crises.
Recognizing the rights of nature could offer a different path.
Wildfires, heatwaves and unprecedented weather events are no longer breaking news, they’re our permanent backdrop.
Yet again this year, we are facing the grave effects of a climate system that we have destabilized.
We are watching the world experience painful and deadly climate extremes, while our collective response remains ‘too little, too late’.
Although we’re in need of hope, hope is never a plan. As a global society and as citizens of Earth, we urgently need a tangible shift in how our legal systems treat the living world.
Recognizing the universal rights of nature is the answer.
The natural world has too few legal protections.
Credit: Damocean/Getty
China’s extraordinary rise in science and how it will change the world nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
China’s extraordinary rise in science and how it will change the world
14OCT2026
By Xiaoying You nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
The nation is on a trajectory to lead the world in science, a development that will reshape technological advancement, innovation and the balance of global power.
China’s President Xi Jinping is betting big on science. At a high-level meeting in Shanghai in April, he urged regional governments, universities and research institutes to strengthen the country’s fundamental research.
“We must seize opportunities, rise to challenges, put basic research high on the agenda,” he said.
Xi’s directive is part of a broad and long campaign by China to up its game in science and technology.
Just a month earlier, the country’s leaders highlighted the importance of science in China’s latest five-year plan.
That policy blueprint calls for substantial investments in fundamental research and innovation, and pledges to accelerate the development of frontier technologies, such as artificial intelligence, quantum applications and controlled nuclear fusion, by the end of this decade.
Illustration: Jasiek Krzysztofiak. Photos: Qilai Shen/Bloomberg/Getty; Shawn Thew/EPA/Bloomberg/Getty; AFP via Getty; Inst. Plasma Physics at Hefei Insts of Phys. Sci., Chinese Academy of Sciences; S. L. Chen et al./Sci. Rep. (CC BY 4.0); VCG via Getty(2)
China’s extraordinary rise in science and how it will change the world
14OCT2026
By Xiaoying You nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
The nation is on a trajectory to lead the world in science, a development that will reshape technological advancement, innovation and the balance of global power.
China’s President Xi Jinping is betting big on science. At a high-level meeting in Shanghai in April, he urged regional governments, universities and research institutes to strengthen the country’s fundamental research.
“We must seize opportunities, rise to challenges, put basic research high on the agenda,” he said.
Xi’s directive is part of a broad and long campaign by China to up its game in science and technology.
Just a month earlier, the country’s leaders highlighted the importance of science in China’s latest five-year plan.
That policy blueprint calls for substantial investments in fundamental research and innovation, and pledges to accelerate the development of frontier technologies, such as artificial intelligence, quantum applications and controlled nuclear fusion, by the end of this decade.
Illustration: Jasiek Krzysztofiak. Photos: Qilai Shen/Bloomberg/Getty; Shawn Thew/EPA/Bloomberg/Getty; AFP via Getty; Inst. Plasma Physics at Hefei Insts of Phys. Sci., Chinese Academy of Sciences; S. L. Chen et al./Sci. Rep. (CC BY 4.0); VCG via Getty(2)
The Profiteers: How Business Privatizes Profits and Socializes Costs
Transcript 0:00 to 19:54
Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University
29JAN2025
youtube.com/watch?v=Aqor91e-…
From climate change to inequality, public leaders grapple with some of the biggest crises of our day.
Addressing them requires multi-sector approaches that rebalance the interrelationships between corporations, governments, and civil society.
Christopher Marquis of the Cambridge Judge Business School and author of the book
The Profiteers: How Business Privatizes Profit and Socializes Cost, explored economics-driven assumptions of our world from a sociological perspective at the Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University, moderated by Center faculty affiliate and Harvard Kennedy School professor Matthew Lee.
The event was co-sponsored by the Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University and Social Innovation + Change Initiative at Harvard Kennedy School.
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Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University
Chapters
Transcript
0:00
good afternoon thank you for joining us my name is Matthew Lee I'm an associate professor here at the Harvard Kennedy
0:07
School and it's my pleasure to welcome you here to the Bloomberg Center for cities for this afternoon's event uh
0:12
with Professor Christopher Maris Christopher Marquis is the senior professor at the judge business school
0:18
previously he was a professor at the Harvard Business School and the Cornell Johnson school he's an award-winning researcher having published countless
0:25
articles in leading journals on issues related to corporate social responsibility insti Theory and on
0:31
business and Society issues in China his productivity across a wide variety of topics is the stuff of Legend Among Us
0:37
management Scholars on a personal note I'd add that Chris is a generous friend and Mentor who had a major impact on my
0:43
own development as a co-author and academic mentor of mine uh when I was a doctoral student at HBS so this
0:50
afternoon's program will proceed as follows we'll start with Chris giving a brief summary of his book The propers
0:57
and remarks about um the ideas that he velops in his new book we'll then have a conversation uh between Chris and I
1:04
about a few questions that came up for me as I was reading the book finally we'll reserve the last 20 minutes or so
1:10
for questions from the audience uh and with that let me hand it over to
1:20
Chris he uh well thank you so much Matt for the kind introduction thank you all for coming really wonderful to be here
1:27
at the kendi school in this space I I actually spent 2017 and 2018 here as a
1:32
visiting faculty member and there wasn't anything uh like this so it's so really amazing to to see this um I mentioned
1:39
that because actually a lot of the ideas that I've developed in this book actually I think I can trace to some of
1:44
my time at the Kennedy School and particularly around the critique of business and the need for systemic
1:51
change so my book is called the profiteers how business privatizes profit and socializes cost uh I'll
1:57
present a couple ideas uh from the book obviously 20 minutes I'm not going to present um the whole thing I can't talk
2:04
that fast but um but a couple things so first of all regarding the title uh so
2:11
it's very much a critique of our current uh business and economic system however
2:19
if the publisher would have let me I would have had a little bit of a longer title and sort of after how business
2:25
privatizes profit and socializes cost would have and what we can do about it because
2:30
a lot of the book as well is trying to understand how businesses in many cases
2:36
working with policy makers and uh the NGS can actually help reverse some of
2:43
the systemic problems um that we have so we need these changes now because you
2:49
know the world is in a tremendously dire situation you probably hear this and see
2:55
this all the time so I won't Bel labor you with all the headlines here but from climate inequality issues of systemic
3:02
discrimination you know there are really big challenges that we have in the world and business I think many times gets
3:08
blamed for them and I think rightfully so however as well I think that business
3:14
can help provide some solutions although you know I want to don't want to sound like a Pana but I want to say that
3:20
actually working very much hand inand with uh with policy makers as where
3:26
where we're going to end up a major critique that I think is in many cases right on target as to why uh we're in
3:34
this situation is that you know the neoliberal um system that is really
3:39
dominant nowadays has focused on uh an economic system where companies
3:45
particularly publicly tra publicly traded companies are beholden in a very short-term fashion to their shareholders
3:53
so in order to actually deliver quarterly returns they sacrifice on a lot of environmental and social goods
4:00
and this has led to huge levels of inequality over the past 50 years and lots of environmental degradation I
4:06
generally think this is at some level a a reasonable and you know accurate critique but why I wrote the book and
4:14
and where I think that a lot of the solutions have gone wrong is that
4:20
they've been focused on an idea that business shouldn't just focus on its shareholders but should focus on a
4:26
broader set of stakeholders I think that sort of makes sense you know like okay let's just not focus on this one limited
4:33
group but actually open it up and focus on a broader set of them however you know as I'll say a little bit about I
4:39
think this also introduces a lot of really serious problems that we need to be uh thinking differently about so you
4:46
know this idea of stakeholder capitalism businesses focusing on stakeholders you know is really famously been introduced
4:54
by these leading organizations like the world economic Forum The Business Roundtable you know equally as Elite
5:00
this is the trade group of the 200 largest US firms uh huge press coverage
5:06
on their you know statement around business being responsible to all or committed to all stakeholders uh I you
5:14
know at the time thought you know I'm not really sure if they'll actually follow through on that but at least it gets it in the public conversation but
5:21
actually I don't even think it's worth it getting in the public conversation based on sort of the progress that that
5:27
is that has occurred uh you know the problem is I think these actors have found is that when you say something
5:34
people will check later on if you actually do it and you know this uh
5:39
stakeholder capitalism idea of the business round table has really turned out in my opinion to be a big giant
5:45
greenwashing effort so very early on there were a number of case studies that
5:50
journalists mostly picked up upon that really show the inconsistency so you have this example here in the New York
5:57
Times where Marriotts a signatory to the business Round Table
6:02
sort of in aide is that Marriott is actually very uh involved at Cornell in its Hotel school where I used to
6:08
actually be a faculty member and the CEO of Marriott is always talking about their you know commitment to the
6:14
business Round Table however as this article very I think as astutely and
6:19
accurately portrays uh when Co hit you know of course Hospitality businesses
6:25
have to make hard choices you know you can't necessarily keep employ everyone
6:30
um but they were very quick quicker than many competitors in laying people off
6:36
cutting benefits uh again I you know willing to be open-minded about this it's it's a hard time however at the
6:43
same time they increased their dividend and gave their CEO arrays so this
6:48
dichotomy I think really points to the sort of inconsistencies of these um
6:53
stakeholder capitalism uh pronouncements so now we're five years into this and there's
6:59
been number of academic and journalistic investigations of this you probably SE
7:05
the I think the business week Bloomberg Business Week had something uh the guardian um uh a number of academics
7:12
have analyzed this pretty rigorously so I I have a quote here from a study uh that's published in a finance Journal by
7:19
some academics at Yale in Colombia and you can read this quote here relative to
7:24
peers signatories violate environmental and labor laws more frequently have higher carbon commissions rely more on
7:31
government subsidies and are more likely to disagree with proxy recommendations on shareholder proposals which are
7:36
frequently around you know a variety of social good areas I read that because it
7:42
is really even surprising to me that they are doing worse on all of these
7:50
stakeholder focused topics than than their peers uh and I would have maybe
7:57
not thought they would do worse I thought maybe they just would do about the same um another uh paper that that
8:03
analyzed this actually tries to explain this you know why are they actually doing doing worse uh and it and they
8:10
refer to it as like a moral licensing problem so you know this idea is more
8:15
prevalent in Psychology you know many of you I see some some head shaking are familiar with it you know the idea that
8:20
if you do something good you feel licensed to do something bad so you know I sort of got up early and worked out
8:27
this morning so I you know had a donnut after after lunch I felt totally I felt licensed to do that so you know these
8:34
companies by saying that they're you know stakeholder focused actually feel emboldened to actually you know violate
8:40
that in more substantial ways which these very rigorous analyses have shown uh I won't belabor you at the point but
8:47
also a lot of the um you know governmental efforts over the past
8:52
decade for companies to be more sustainable they've also worked very hard to block as well as um undermining
9:00
a variety of other programs so so so you could one on the one hand say the
9:06
Business Roundtable large companies you know these are sort of bad apples these are companies that you know they're just
9:13
really focused on short-term profit so you know of course you know you can't um you know you sort of can't trust them uh
9:20
but I think the bigger issue is that this idea of stakeholder capitalism uh that they're supposedly following and
9:26
that is widespreadly believed there 's actually uh almost 10,000 studies in the
9:33
academic literature that look at this idea and how um you know being more
9:39
stakeholder oriented is good for for companies so this is an incredibly widespread um you know set of ideas but
9:46
I think it's actually problematic for a couple reasons one is I think it it it encourages firms to
9:53
greenwash not although there might be some greenwashing in a traditional sense where they're just communicating things
10:00
and not doing them I think this is a greenwashing uh in a term of
10:05
selectively uh doing positive things to distract from other negative things so
10:10
it's like oh I'm doing this sort of shiny stakeholder capitalism thing ignore the fact that
10:16
I'm doing all these um negative things so some of my academic research has looked at similar uh processes I'll
10:23
example that in a second I also think it it relies on very questionable
10:28
assumptions that doing well uh excuse me doing good leads to to doing well uh
10:35
this is also something you hear a lot about when you're talking to businesses about sustainability and clearly there
10:42
are examples where you know companies have environmental they they install LED
10:48
lights and they have some environmental savings and and this is like good for their bottom line and good for the
10:53
environment uh but those examples are minuscule compared to the big problems
11:00
that business cause and I think that you know relying on this doing well by doing good actually distracts from much more
11:07
fundamental um uh reforms which are totally necessary uh and I think this business Round Table example in
11:14
particular is one where you know if they're able to actually convince the
11:20
public and lawmakers which I think they generally have that oh this is in our
11:25
interest you know we have this win-win we're going to do well we're this will lead to you know or excuse me do good
11:31
this will lead to us doing well that there's much less pressure on them to do
11:37
um you know sort of negative or do do uh sort of uh real reform you see this
11:42
today interestingly in AI company governance uh um a lot of the AI
11:48
companies from anthropic and open Ai and and xai Elon musks um Venture are
11:55
organizing as benefit corporations which are companies that have governance that
12:01
that supposedly tie them Beyond shareholder Primacy and I think that a big reason for this is they're trying to
12:06
avoid um avoid regulation so an example of this a
12:12
little more concrete is Pepsi so Pepsi is a company that is lotted for its
12:20
focus on stakeholders it wins Awards you can see this just Capital uh you know seal they have here for being on the
12:26
just Capital 100 uh which is based on sort of a stakeholder logic they get
12:32
written up for for buying B corporations uh and I'm sure they do
12:38
great things in whatever they're be they're being rated on however like the
12:43
fundamental business of Pepsi is pretty destructive in my opinion uh sure you
12:48
know of course we should all be able to drink you know soft drinks if we want but the focus they've had on um uh on
12:57
the ingredients uh around high fructose corn syrup which has been tied to being
13:03
a carcinogen their Fredo division has actually has been exposed for actually
13:10
making food more addictive um and these are practices which they actually Lobby
13:16
the government to um to be able to continue perpetuating so um so that's
13:22
sort of one issue also with pollution is another uh another big issue and plastic
13:29
is a huge problem in our world as as many of you know and recycling of
13:35
plastic really is not working uh very effectively but they're very actively telling people how they should recycle
13:42
PL uh Etc okay uh a a second issue that I mentioned is this wiwin logic there's
13:48
been a lot of debunking of studies that have focused on this idea that doing well by doing good very thin uh evidence
13:57
so I think that the stakeholder logic around business reform is
14:04
insufficient you know of course businesses should do well by their employees they should do well by their customers I'm not saying that we should
14:09
ignore you know sort of ignore stakeholders but this is a logic to actually sort of improve and reform and
14:15
make the world better I think is very lacking so I think that that businesses should be much more accountable for
14:22
their underlying business model and what that business model actually delivers to the world and that means that we don't
14:28
just look at selective positives but we actually dig into the negatives uh that
14:35
result from uh from from the business production so the subtitle of the book
14:40
how business privatizes profit and socializes cost focuses on uh the concept of externalities which I I
14:48
unpack a lot in the book and you can see here it illustrated by this um by this
14:53
nice little graphic uh from a New York Times article from a couple months ago that I highly recommend very good uh
14:59
discussion of of how much of you know what we eat and consume and buy actually
15:04
has huge amounts of externalities uh in the costs and you can see here for beef
15:10
you know people pay $5 dollar but actually um you know lot lots of lots of external costs from emissions and and
15:17
land use Etc so when I've briefly introduced the book
15:22
to to various uh faculty and friends in economics uh no offense to any
15:28
economists in the room you know they say oh you know we've have externalities figured out we're we're economists um
15:34
and I well anyways there's a lot of good Insight from economists on externalities I don't want any hard questions from you
15:40
later uh but uh but I think we need to do a lot more uh in a couple ways so one
15:48
is that the systems that are usually um sort of articulated like that cow beef
15:55
externality diagram are focused on the a that we can actually really accurately
16:02
price uh an account for externalities through some um you know sort of Market
16:07
or pricing logic certainly I think trying to dig into that is really really important but I think that just focusing
16:13
on the economics and accounting aspect misses how socially and politically constructed uh these ideas
16:20
are uh companies are very actively lobing and doing PR and communication uh
16:27
uh PL programs to actually deflect uh attention from many of the the uh areas
16:33
that they uh focus on a big focus of the book I have a whole chapter on these in
16:38
misinformation strategies I won't go over them in detail but but a lot of work um from companies like pepsy in the
16:45
packaging industry uh have been on you know socializing ideas of the litter
16:50
buug and individual carbon footprints that actually transfers the
16:56
responsibility of waste and emission to individuals as opposed to companies and I think this is something we need to you
17:02
know sort of reverse and actually understand how um you know how these you know our our ideas of what a responsible
17:09
company is uh have been shaped by those companies themselves in a way that very is very
17:14
self-interested I think it also ignores how endemic the issues around
17:21
externalities are uh and there's a semi list there the environmental ones are
17:27
ones that actually get a lot of headlines but there's a lot of socially oriented ones around income and wealth
17:33
inequality and discrimination and most of these costs
17:38
are actually being borne by people you know very far away from where we are here and living in very different
17:45
circumstances uh than than we are here and so you know we have these sort of wonderful lives that are you know not
17:52
almost completely but very substantially um underwritten by people living in very poor uh conditions and I
17:59
think that is something we need to put a lot more attention on so that in general
18:06
is you know some of the critique um what I think looking more positively I am
18:12
actually pretty optimistic um and and and and sort of Reform Orient reform
18:17
thinking person uh and I do think that actually unpacking this idea of
18:22
externalities and the societal uh and political processes underlying that actually help businesses
18:30
identify uh areas for Innovation uh and also how Collective
18:36
action is important uh in in this as well let me give you one example of this is a company I studied called Grove
18:42
collaborative actually one of The Inspirations for this book uh was in an interview that I did with uh the co
18:49
co-founder and chair uh who's there Stu lansberg who's now a pretty pretty good friend uh and he described to me how
18:57
when they his company when he found founded this thought about responsibility it was about eliminating
19:03
plastic and you know you think about this business I I should tell you what they do I guess I guess first so they
19:09
are like a HomeGoods and cleaning supply and health and beauty uh company and
19:15
produce all kinds of products that are traditionally delivered in liquid form
19:20
which means that actually plastic is a pretty important material because to to
19:25
to sort of ship um uh and and deliver to consumer this liquids you need some non-porous
19:31
type container so he said you know we are not focused you know we're certainly
19:37
focused on our employees and communities Etc but we realize that if we want to be a responsible company we have to focus
19:43
on the externality that most stems from our business and that is plastic and
19:49
this actually Focus has led to an amazing set of Innovations and business
19:54
process re-engineering within the firm for instance as someone uh who grew up in the 1970s and 80s you know I did not
I Teach at a Business School. It’s Time to Shut Them Down.
Listen · 16:47 min
18OCT2026
By Chris Marquis
NYT Gift Article link
nytimes.com/2026/10/18/opini…
Mr. Marquis is a professor at the University of Cambridge Judge Business School and the author of “The Profiteers: How Business Privatizes Profit and Socializes Cost.”
This fall, another cohort of ambitious young professionals has arrived at business schools around the world for two-year programs with price tags in the six figures. Their presence at some of the nicest and shiniest buildings on campus renews a familiar question: What exactly is an M.B.A. for?
This question has become more urgent as business education has expanded dramatically in the past decades. Today, nearly one in five American undergraduates majors in business, and the M.B.A. is the most popular graduate degree in the United States.
I have taught in business schools for over 20 years, at Harvard, Cornell and Cambridge. While some students appear to care only about their future compensation, I have met many with nobler goals: engineers who want to commercialize clean energy, physicians determined to fix the health care system, nonprofit leaders who have watched good missions fail for want of good management.
These students enroll hoping to learn what business schools say they teach: how to manage people, how to allocate capital and resources and how to make the world a better place through leadership. But I’ve come to see how the institution can reshape the worldviews of those who enter it, often undermining the very ambitions that brought them there.
This change can take place in a single semester. Again and again, I have watched students abandon their altruistic intentions, instead becoming consumed by whether to choose careers in consulting or finance and who will land a summer internship at McKinsey or Goldman Sachs.
The modern business school is designed to promote dealmaking, simplification and optimization. This mind-set has escaped containment and has spread to the wider world. Business-educated elites increasingly populate political leadership, bringing with them a transactional view of public life. One investigation found that out of 45 current heads of state who had studied in the United States, 10 were business majors, and six of those also earned M.B.A.s. President Trump, a Wharton graduate, has treated foreign policy and government itself as extensions of dealmaking and personal gain.
Surely, not every business graduate governs this way. But recent research by the Nobel laureate economist Daron Acemoglu and colleagues shows what tends to happen when you put an M.B.A. in charge. In both the United States and Denmark, firms that appointed managers with business degrees cut wages and reduced labor’s share of income. Yet these companies didn’t become more productive, nor did they grow sales, investment or employment any faster. What registers as managerial acumen turns out to be wealth transfer — value moved away from workers and toward profits, shareholders and executives.
I’ve come to realize that business schools don’t just reflect our economic system — they actively manufacture its priorities and normalize its harms, training the future leaders who will design and defend the structures driving our overlapping global crises. Tinkering at the margins with a class on corporate responsibility or ethics is not going to help. We don’t need to “fix” business schools. We need to abolish them.
Business schools have always struggled to justify their place in the university. A medical school’s core justification is health, and a law school’s is justice — undisputed public goods. Business schools are organized explicitly around a private good: the pursuit of profit. The American sociologist Thorstein Veblen identified this tension a century ago, criticizing university schools focused on commerce because they “need imply nothing in the way of serviceability to the common good.”
When schools like Wharton and Harvard Business School were established, they were seen as overly vocational, and to build legitimacy their founders framed management as a profession, on par with law and medicine. But education in those fields rested on established bodies of knowledge — centuries of case law, natural sciences like biology — that management lacked.
The solution, devised in the 1920s by the Harvard dean Wallace Donham, was to borrow the teaching style used in law and medicine: the case study. It became the signature method of business education. To this day, professors assign 10- to 20-page descriptions of business challenges culminating in a decision point that students then debate in class. The method is pervasive: In 2024, Harvard Business School sold nearly 17 million case studies to various business programs around the world.
One well-known case study that I have taught many times is “Rob Parson at Morgan Stanley.” The facts are simple enough to produce a lively classroom debate. Mr. Parson has delivered impressive results and is viewed as a star performer, but his abrasive and go-it-alone style has alienated people across the firm. In the classroom, students take the position of his manager, Paul Nasr, and decide whether to promote him, delay the promotion or push him out.
Nearly three decades after publication, it remains among H.B.S.’s most widely used cases, and the dilemma is enduring: Should results be rewarded even when the person producing them damages the culture around him? In class, students vote on Mr. Nasr’s options and often role-play the difficult conversation between him and Mr. Parson. The discussion can be dramatic, engaging and effective.
But my experience has shown that by asking students to inhabit Mr. Nasr’s role, the case study narrows their imaginations to the decision facing one senior manager. Deeper questions — like whether Mr. Parson is himself a product of investment-banking culture — are rarely raised. Mr. Parson becomes an individual problem, when the larger issue may be an industry that rewards rainmaking, hierarchy and masculine performance norms, then acts surprised when they cause conflict.
When the case method is used in medicine and law, it serves a different set of goals. Medical students work through detailed patient scenarios — symptoms, test results, histories and social and economic context. Law students read real court opinions, dissecting facts, arguments and judgments. In both fields, students are confronted by the messiness of reality, and the goal is to foster disciplined skepticism: ask what’s missing, challenge assumptions and test how an analysis could be wrong.
Business school cases operate on another logic, focused not on inquiry but on decision making. H.B.S.’s own overview of the method describes students imagining “themselves in the decision-maker’s role” and “taking decisive action.” The point is to practice acting like the person in charge — or, as George W. Bush, a graduate of Harvard Business School, put it, “the decider.”
By overestimating the importance of individual decision makers, the business school classroom avoids harder questions: Who made this person the legitimate protagonist? Whose knowledge is absent? Why are workers, regulators, communities, ecosystems or citizens rarely given equal standing?
I wrote dozens of case studies during my decade at H.B.S., some of which are described as classics and best sellers. These are not products of independent research, but carefully packaged corporate narratives. The disclaimer printed in tiny type on every H.B.S. case concedes this point: Cases “are not intended to serve … as sources of primary data.” The data they include can be selective, biased or even fabricated.
For the many cases I wrote under the guidance of senior faculty members, events that reflected poorly on the company were softened or omitted and the roles of certain executives were burnished. The companies held final approval, with drafts reviewed by their lawyers and P.R. staff. Rather than being vehicles for disinterested learning, as one might expect at a university, the case studies end up as instruments of reputation management.
Corporate influence feeds a larger problem: The cases almost always feature winners, making it easy to mistake luck or timing for a proven strategy. Failures, dead ends and nonmarket solutions are rarely considered. Before Enron’s fraud was exposed, its business model was presented in admiring terms by at least five H.B.S. case studies. More damning still, the strategies that later led to its collapse — its asset-light model, its trading platform — were portrayed as innovations. Questions about deregulated energy markets, revolving-door oversight and opaque accounting went unasked.
Furthermore, edits that push the case narratives away from reality are often meant to make it “work” in a classroom. Complexity is systematically shaved away, and dissenting voices often go unheard. Real organizations don’t move in clearly delineated phases toward a decision point, but business school teaching materials often do — compressing timelines, dropping messy subplots and smoothing over contradictions to produce clean narrative arcs and satisfying problems to debate.
The result is a curriculum built around false narratives. Some of the most celebrated ideas in management have not been the ones that survived peer review or replication, but the ones that could be turned into TED Talks, consulting frameworks or airport best sellers. Faculty members are rewarded not for knowledge but for performance — selling a big idea with a memorable label that promises “success” or “disruption.”
Business schools have a divided mission: They seek to legitimize an economic system focused on private gain while also developing guardrails to tame it. They found a remarkable way to manage this tension: the “win-win” story in which the conflict between private gain and public good simply evaporates.
A classic win-win is the contention that environmental programs like reducing waste or using LED lights can save money or that decent pay and benefits lower costs by reducing employee turnover. Business schools now claim to educate “leaders who make a difference in the world,” as H.B.S. proclaims in its mission, while Wharton pursues a “quest for positive global impact.”
These aspirations are built on the delusional but widely accepted idea of “stakeholder capitalism”: that companies can produce climate stability, fair wages, healthy communities and functioning democracies while also delivering profits. Executives promise that technology will solve our environmental problems; voluntary measurement systems are offered as appropriate alternatives to public accountability; ethics is rebranded as competitive advantage rather than moral obligation.
During the 2010s, stakeholder capitalism was quickly woven into M.B.A. syllabuses. But when researchers examined whether the corporations that signed on to a statement pledging commitment to this ethos actually changed their behavior on wages, investment, governance or climate, they found little evidence of a shift. The statement was less a new doctrine than an effort at reputation management — and a ploy to avoid oversight.
Recent evidence shows that many foundational studies supporting the win-win idea were based on flawed data or couldn’t be replicated. Yet faculty members keep researching, writing about and teaching the topic — suggesting an ideological project more than an academic exercise.
Much of what has happened in business schools turned out to be the leading edge of a broader transformation: the corporatization of the university itself. Institutions now chase rankings, donors and corporate partnerships, tout their contributions to innovation and growth and treat everything else as overhead. Students are “customers,” and the degrees are “products” with greater and lesser “market shares.” University strategic documents talk about “brand positioning” for departments and “R.O.I.s” on tenure lines.
Once you accept this frame, it becomes hard to defend the existence of a philosophy seminar or a history department for any reason other than the revenue it generates. The hiring of non-tenure-track adjunct professors follows: If education is “content” delivered to fee-paying “customers,” why keep full-time scholars on the payroll when you can hire contingent, low-wage instructors?
Business schools’ success in placing their graduates in high-paying jobs boosts their rankings; high rankings attract more applicants and allow higher tuitions; and wealthy alumni fund new programs and buildings that elevate the school’s status. It is a self-reinforcing cycle — a flywheel, in M.B.A. parlance — that pulls money, attention and legitimacy away from the disciplines best equipped to question this logic: history, philosophy, sociology, political theory.
The university’s capacity to cultivate historical memory, moral judgment and democratic imagination is weakened, even as its capacity to churn out data analysts, financial engineers and “innovation” managers grows. The irony — and danger — is that in the age of A.I., the thinking fostered in the arts and humanities is increasingly urgent. The domination of business schools is not only physical and financial; it is intellectual, and it is crowding out liberal education.
I’ve come to a grim conclusion: The problem with business schools is not repairable misalignment but the design itself. Business schools are not malfunctioning institutions; they are highly efficient machines doing exactly what they were designed to do. An ethics elective here, a sustainability center there, a “responsible leadership” badge — they all serve to legitimize the machine, not change its output.
The most honest solution I’ve come across is to replace the category entirely. Stuart Hart, an emeritus professor at Cornell and an early sustainability champion, told me he reached that conclusion after trying every internal route to make M.B.A. curriculums more responsible. The institution itself was the problem. At the University of Vermont, Dr. Hart has since developed a new form of business degree focused on societal impact — a small but concrete test of the case for starting over. In this program, sustainability is not a lone elective but run through the whole curriculum, and students spend the summer embedded in a mission-driven company.
What would that clean-sheet logic mean across an entire university? One starting point is the organization theorist Martin Parker’s call to create “schools for organizing” rather than schools for business, centered on how humans coordinate for shared ends. Students would study co-ops, unions and social movements alongside the shareholder corporation. The central question would shift from “How do we maximize shareholder value?” to “How do different forms of organization distribute power, risk and reward — and which should we strengthen?”
Dismantling the business school as a single high-status silo that professionalizes private gain may seem a heavy lift. But universities can create cross-disciplinary pathways for students who want to work in business without submitting them to the business school worldview. Some already offer “business and society” majors or master’s programs in organizations and public purpose, drawing on sociology, law and public policy. The point would not be to abolish the study of markets, but to return it to settings where questions of power, history, democracy and ecological limits cannot be so easily avoided.
For most of my career, I’ve taught electives focused on responsible business and sustainability — gratifying work, but largely preaching to the converted. Recently, at Cambridge, I introduced a required sustainability course filled with future bankers, consultants and tech executives who once would have steered clear.
Many arrive deeply skeptical, convinced that any time a corporation acts in a responsible way it must be a marketing ploy; some push back hard on ideas they see as threats to growth. But forcing them out of their bubbles into a shared conversation about the natural environment, inequality and discrimination has produced the kind of debate that is so often missing in education today.
This is not enough. One required course cannot redeem the business school model. If anything, teaching it has intensified my disappointment. The course is relegated to the very end of the program — a telling signal of its importance — and amid a growing backlash against sustainability, there is some pressure to reduce or eliminate the class, to appease the customers who now drive decisions in higher education.
Still, the experience has reminded me why abolishing business schools cannot mean abandoning the people in them. The goal is not to write off the students as aspiring selfish capitalists; it is to stop funneling them through a machine that narrows their sense of possibility. Many of my students arrive on campus wanting to work on the crises that our economic system has created. What they lack is an institution that is worthy of their better impulses.
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Christopher Marquis is a professor at the University of Cambridge Judge Business School and the author of “The Profiteers.”
I Teach at a Business School. It’s Time to Shut Them Down.
Listen · 16:47 min
18OCT2026
By Chris Marquis
NYT Gift Article link
nytimes.com/2026/10/18/opini…
Mr. Marquis is a professor at the University of Cambridge Judge Business School and the author of “The Profiteers: How Business Privatizes Profit and Socializes Cost.”
Credit...Ed Steed
The Profiteers: How Business Privatizes Profits and Socializes Costs
Transcript 20:02 to 39:59
youtube.com/watch?v=Aqor91e-…
From climate change to inequality, public leaders grapple with some of the biggest crises of our day.
Addressing them requires multi-sector approaches that rebalance the interrelationships between corporations, governments, and civil society.
Christopher Marquis of the Cambridge Judge Business School and author of the book
The Profiteers: How Business Privatizes Profit and Socializes Cost, explored economics-driven assumptions of our world from a sociological perspective at the Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University, moderated by Center faculty affiliate and Harvard Kennedy School professor Matthew Lee.
The event was co-sponsored by the Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University and Social Innovation + Change Initiative at Harvard Kennedy School.
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20:02
realize that shampoos could be actually delivered in bar form you know you you actually you know didn't need liquid for
20:09
for shampoo this has been really sort of mind you know sort of changing um you know change my perspective on things so
20:15
anyway so they create all these Innovative project products that actually don't use any liquid and have
20:21
won a variety of awards for this and it's really positioned them very well uh in in their industry also they were able
20:27
to create like a costing mechanism within their company to um to assess the business
20:35
line managers to whether or not they're actually um you know sort of reducing plastic or not within their business
20:41
line and then finally they also created a a like badging um uh setup so
20:46
consumers to help educate consumers around this idea so um you know you know
20:53
as he said to me it's better to be recycling but that's actually not the choice we as an industry have in many ways
20:59
the idea the many of the sort of ideas I try to unpack in the book are about sort
21:05
of thinking about sort of waste and other you know externalities that
21:10
companies have in in new and different ways because usually companies are just thinking about you know oh we'll recycle
21:17
and even the policy interventions uh on this topic like
21:22
there's a lot of work around extended producer responsibility uh bills uh in Europe in the US frequently FOC us on
21:29
you know recycling as systems and funding recycling systems as opposed to actually limitating and reducing it uh
21:35
and also there's huge um resistance to that in in Korea there just recently uh
21:40
some work to have an international agreement on plastic but the you know Plastic industry basically um you
21:47
derailed that so as I sort of work through the book uh sort of where I end
21:53
up is trying is trying to help businesses
21:59
shift their mindsets from the a traditional sustainability perspective
22:04
which is more about doing less harm uh to one where how actually can the
22:10
Business Systems be created to actually add Positively to to the world um there
22:18
is increasing um interest in moving from like a discourse of sustainability to
22:23
one around regeneration which again sort of takes from this like do less harm to more about sort of restoring
22:30
revitalizing you know ecosystems um uh communities Etc uh one of the examples I
22:36
give about that is Patagonia I hate to use Patagonia because they're sort of always the poster shout for you know
22:43
sustainable business but I think here it's a really uh useful example because when I interviewed um this gentleman
22:52
here Vincent Stanley who has this wonderful title of director of philosophy so he said you know we have
22:58
been operating at at this point you know 40 45 years and we have always been very
23:04
focused on sustainability very focused on the environment very focused on organic but actually not until they got
23:09
into the food business uh with Patagonia de Provisions did they realized that
23:14
actually there was a fundamental you know issue with some of the key logic
23:20
that they had around their sustainability program so what he told me is that when they were when they um
23:27
were were sort of working with farmers and producers on their products they
23:33
realize that if done correctly which is sort of like people did a hundred years ago and before if you agriculture uh can
23:43
actually um sort of you know Aid in soil soil Rejuvenation rebuild ecosystems you
23:50
know Foster biodiversity you know these ideas of of regeneration and he said um
23:55
you know we were a business that was so committed to the envir environment you know but we realize that in our mission
24:01
statement in our whole perspective is about doing less harm and the fact that
24:08
harm that they're admitting they're doing harm is in their mission statement sort of rethinking in their business led
24:13
to this um you know New Vision of wor business sa home planet lots of uh you
24:20
know working with consumers to discourage and help them just consume
24:26
appropriate amounts not over consume like vast fashion things like extending life of their products around you know
24:34
sort of secondhand marketplaces repair um reuse Etc uh obviously very a lot of
24:40
Upstream um type of things too around materials and and production so so really they're looking at their entire
24:46
value chain and seeing you know how can each part of that be built in a much more um regenerative fashion so in
24:53
closing um one of the things I sort of close the book with
24:59
uh in the last section I have a variety of sort of you know policy investment you know you know Collective action
25:05
businesses and U consumer uh uh factors that can help and I focus on this idea
25:11
of sort of no silver bullets I think that so many uh Solutions are presented
25:17
as we need to do this this is the one thing that is most essential and you know given the state of the world we
25:22
need to do everything uh basically you know this is frequently presented to me
25:28
you know people are very focused on carbon markets and I and I mean I think their carbon markets are great but they're not they're part of the solution
25:35
or a variety of other policy implementations so this quote by Eisenhower I think and it it sort of
25:40
connects the Grove collaborative and Patagonia example uh where he talked about when he was organizing the D-Day
25:49
Landing uh and you know Eisenhower was not like a battlefield General he was
25:54
one that focused on the logistics and Supply um uh Etc and he and so the D-Day Landing you know
26:00
this amazing organizational feat he said you know I never um sort of try to think
26:07
make things smaller I think about making things sort bigger and by that he means you know usually when you have a big
26:13
project people say oh break it down into little pieces and you know that is a way to sort of help solve it but he thinks
26:20
that you need to actually see the larger Contours of the issue to actually see
26:26
those connections and that's in many ways how I see these challenges that we have that we need to be thinking like
26:33
you know sort of Patagonia and entering new area eras to open your mindsets to
26:38
making those different connections uh because the system we're in the sort of neoliberal system you know promotes
26:45
things like stakeholder capitalism which are solutions which are embodied within
26:51
the existing system and we need to be you know thinking very much uh beyond
26:56
that uh one of the things I'm very conscious of in general but also I know
27:02
I'm here at a school that's focused on public policy is that I focus a lot of my attention on the private sector and
27:09
business and I think that how business and policy work together it's sort of like a one two punch almost you know
27:16
we're never going to get where we need to go with just voluntary action from companies the things I've talked about
27:23
in the book are really excellent as uh sort of business case
27:29
validations uh you know Innovations to show how things work but actually need
27:34
to have them translated into mandatory um um stipulations through policy and
27:42
now that I've been sort of teaching and researching this for 20 some years now it's been amazing to see some of those things come to fruition where some of
27:49
the early you know voluntary things have now been um sort of moved into more um
27:55
you know sort of mandatory I also think we need many other things new investment
28:00
policies and approaches ownership is a huge huge issue uh particularly uh in
28:08
more developed context uh really it's it's so focused on making the rich get
28:14
richer uh and is exacerbated income inequality and there is a lot of Reform very interesting things going on and
28:19
consumers too I think you know I'll mention consumers a lot of attention gets put on consumers saying oh consumer
28:26
we need the you know the sort of millennial you know conscious consumers
28:32
are going to save us uh and I think that's just another way to deflect responsibility from uh companies where
28:38
where actually the responsibility should be I'll finish here that you know the time is now we really need to step up uh
28:46
and make change and I think that you know in combination with policy that
28:52
business uh has a tremendous uh role to play in creating Innovations uh in new
28:58
models that then can be translated into much more formal laws and it's really
29:05
essential that we do this because this idea of businesses doing this through their own voluntary
29:11
self-interest uh you know has not gotten us anywhere in 50 years and so with that
29:17
I will turn it over to you [Applause]
29:25
Matt as I mentioned at the beginning ask Chris a few questions and then we'll open it up to questions from the
29:31
audience uh I'm so glad you wrote this book Chris because uh it wraps together a bunch of ideas that I know you've been
29:37
working on for a long time and I think this Frame of how business externalizes or socialize costs is a very neat uh way
29:45
of of trying to to capture all of that um it won't be surprising to you that I agree with a lot of the ideas in your
29:51
book uh but I do think there's some real questions about the pathway to this positive Vision that you're trying to
29:56
describe and so let me ask ask a few of those and try to dig into those a little
30:01
bit so the first one is um you
30:07
really critique neoliberalism and uh I think that I'll
30:13
just read a quote uh in from the book you say the the neoliberal tactic of saying the government should address
30:19
externalities through taxes or other pricing mechanisms is nothing more than a way to avoid
30:25
responsibility um I want to dig into this a little bit because I think things like uh cap and trade and other
30:32
price-based mechanisms are pretty popular and accepted among the policy Community as the way that you solve
30:39
these kinds of issues or at least a big part of how you solve these kinds of issues and so I wonder as you think
30:44
about this alternative pathway what is the role of these kind of traditional neoliberal tools within this positive
30:52
Vision that you're trying to describe yeah good great question thank you so I think that all of those things are
30:57
totally essential uh so I'm I'm not in any way
31:02
um anti though against those you know like
31:07
cap and trade or various sort of pricing or Market based um programs for carbon
31:15
emissions or various you know ways to tax and and limit things like plastic
31:21
pollution Etc I think I think those are really essential however I think that so
31:28
often business has tried to avoid a broader responsibility that they should
31:36
have by saying like oh well consumers want this so we should give it to them
31:42
and then the bad things you know is about the you know the government should actually take care of it I think that
31:49
there should be a lot more well for instance you know there's a variety of sort of taxing uh and
31:58
programs on plastic pollution um so should should we doing doing that or
32:05
actually not allowing companies to produce things in plastic uh I think that so I'm I'm all for I mean B I mean
32:13
I think that the the only way we're going to get there is through policy uh strong policy interventions
32:21
but um but the the the the larger businesses have a lot of ways of
32:27
distracting from what actually the underlying responsibility they have is and one is by pointing the finger and
32:32
saying it's the government's responsibility so I see so it's not a problem with the kind of principle of
32:37
putting a price on these things no it's just so hard to implement that that's not really a so I think that's part
32:43
that's part of the solution certainly that's part but but it's not some magic bullet that is going to solve solve
32:50
everything I mean we see that I mean I think these systems are getting better and better but you see actually a lot of times when you put a sort of price on
32:57
carbon companies move elsewhere and that that ends up having some sort of Race To The
33:02
Bottom on environment so now you know Europe has the carbon border adjustment mechanism that is trying to address that
33:08
um as as an example but but I think I think that so I think that yes we need
33:14
we need to think about valuing and pricing uh externalities definitely but that we
33:21
can't just stop there we have to actually think more deeply about um what business responsibility is let me ask
33:28
you about some of these positive examples okay um and again you know I think these are incredible examples that
33:35
that you've pointed to in your book and um frankly what I appreciate about your book among other things is that you have
33:40
a lot of fresh examples that are not kind of rehashing the the old examples of these things um they're still small
33:46
however yes exactly um many of the companies that you mention in the book are pretty small so uh among them and
33:54
these are even maybe some of the larger ones Patagonia all Birds Seventh Generation uh Tony's chocol lonely um
34:02
are all Niche companies within their industries that have been very
34:07
successful in serving a niche customer in a very responsible regenerative right kind of way and so I was just looking at
34:14
it this morning um Patagonia sales are said to be something like $1 billion a year um but the outdoor apparel Market
34:20
is something like $35 billion so Patagonia has been at this for 50 years and they have 3% of their Market and so
34:28
as you think about making this more than a niche thing right if Patagonia is really trying to solve the end problem
34:34
of uh the damage that's done by apparel manufacturing um what is the theory of
34:41
Change by which we scale those Solutions right is it Patagonia selling 30 times as many clo clothes is it other
34:48
companies adopting what Patagonia does is it government regulation what's the what's the formula so so um yeah so
34:55
again sort of I don't think there's any sort of silver bullet uh but I would so the of the three options that
35:02
you gave the sort of implicit or somewhat explicit U theory of the book
35:09
is the government R government one uh and so you know the the idea is that so
35:17
if you look at Patagonia so they they as as just as as an example they've
35:23
actually been very active in collectively organizing in a bunch of
35:28
sectors um that you know around packaging uh is one U around
35:35
regenerative agriculture is is actually I guess yeah one that I'll say a little more about so the idea of like
35:40
regenerative you see this word all around nowadays like what what does that mean um you know that you know that
35:46
could mean anything or nothing uh Pepsi you know Pepsi is big into regenerative I don't think they have any sort of you
35:52
know way to judge that they can call it regenerative maybe they have a pig you know warming around round or something
35:58
I'm not I'm not not sure uh so so they actually been have come together with a
36:04
variety of NGS with other private sector organizations and created a standard
36:09
which many people tell me and I I I'm not an expert in agriculture so I can't is really a very rigorous and important
36:16
standard that is global uh uh now and
36:22
can be adopted similar type things by governments to
36:28
uh to hopefully diffuse that idea so in many ways the sort of connecting the
36:33
dots on the theory is not that Patagonia is going to take over the world or that
36:39
they're they're they're necessarily are going to be voluntarily adopted by I
36:44
don't know Northface or or whomever because change is of large companies is really really really hard but what I
36:51
hope is that by proving models collectively organizing to also to show
36:56
they work that we can pre we can show that these are actually solutions that
37:02
can be implemented in a policy way so that this is this is really interesting
37:07
because I think you know the the kind of accepted wisdom in the social Enterprise
37:12
Community is that social Enterprises are creating ways of doing things that they hope that companies will voluntarily
37:19
adopt and you're suggesting something different which is that if I'm a social entrepreneur uh I should actually be
37:25
designing what I'm doing in a way that's going to eventually make it possible to be adopted in regulation not as a a
37:32
voluntary I yes exactly and this and I um so for instance one one area where
37:39
I've where I've seen this uh that I think is you know the I mean I think it's going to be a very powerful thing
37:44
well time will tell but you know the EU uh recently passed the corporate
37:49
sustainability reporting directive csrd it's I think if you haven't heard about it yet it's going to be a very big deal
37:56
uh because of actually how it enforces accountability for not just EU companies
38:04
but actually it's designed in a way that it's actually going to affect basically all reasonably sized companies in the world in a very rigorous way so this is
38:14
actually built on the shoulders of a lot of private sector and NGO action around
38:22
sort of broadly speaking ESG or sustainability standard so we have you know 20 years of
38:28
experimentation refining best practices lots of things going on and
38:35
those can get adopted by um you know by the government I think that that in like
38:42
the regenerative organic is one where they're working to try to get that adopted as another
38:47
example let me turn to the question of local action so a lot of the ideas that
38:52
you develop in the book are very Global or systemic in nature which makes total
38:58
sense given the global or systemic interdependence of the kinds of issues that you're describing in the book um we
39:05
are in a center for cities and uh so I wanted to ask you a question about the
39:11
role of local action and turns out also that Chris is an expert in community
39:17
level analysis of business and Society issues um and so you know I wonder what
39:23
you see as the role of of local situated action in trying to address these
39:29
broader you know regenerative system level questions um and so if you were
39:36
giving advice to local leaders or people who aren't necessarily in a position to
39:41
try to affect these large systems um what advice would you give to them about their role in concert with the other
39:47
kinds of things you've described good question uh I guess given this is a center for cities we we we should be
39:52
thinking about this um and you really built me up as some expert on community so I should have some really really good
39:59
answer um uh I must admit that I have not thought tremendously I mean the book
The Profiteers: How Business Privatizes Profits and Socializes Costs
Transcript 0:00 to 19:54
Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University
29JAN2025
youtube.com/watch?v=Aqor91e-…
From climate change to inequality, public leaders grapple with some of the biggest crises of our day.
Addressing them requires multi-sector approaches that rebalance the interrelationships between corporations, governments, and civil society.
Christopher Marquis of the Cambridge Judge Business School and author of the book
The Profiteers: How Business Privatizes Profit and Socializes Cost, explored economics-driven assumptions of our world from a sociological perspective at the Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University, moderated by Center faculty affiliate and Harvard Kennedy School professor Matthew Lee.
The event was co-sponsored by the Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University and Social Innovation + Change Initiative at Harvard Kennedy School.
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Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University
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0:00
good afternoon thank you for joining us my name is Matthew Lee I'm an associate professor here at the Harvard Kennedy
0:07
School and it's my pleasure to welcome you here to the Bloomberg Center for cities for this afternoon's event uh
0:12
with Professor Christopher Maris Christopher Marquis is the senior professor at the judge business school
0:18
previously he was a professor at the Harvard Business School and the Cornell Johnson school he's an award-winning researcher having published countless
0:25
articles in leading journals on issues related to corporate social responsibility insti Theory and on
0:31
business and Society issues in China his productivity across a wide variety of topics is the stuff of Legend Among Us
0:37
management Scholars on a personal note I'd add that Chris is a generous friend and Mentor who had a major impact on my
0:43
own development as a co-author and academic mentor of mine uh when I was a doctoral student at HBS so this
0:50
afternoon's program will proceed as follows we'll start with Chris giving a brief summary of his book The propers
0:57
and remarks about um the ideas that he velops in his new book we'll then have a conversation uh between Chris and I
1:04
about a few questions that came up for me as I was reading the book finally we'll reserve the last 20 minutes or so
1:10
for questions from the audience uh and with that let me hand it over to
1:20
Chris he uh well thank you so much Matt for the kind introduction thank you all for coming really wonderful to be here
1:27
at the kendi school in this space I I actually spent 2017 and 2018 here as a
1:32
visiting faculty member and there wasn't anything uh like this so it's so really amazing to to see this um I mentioned
1:39
that because actually a lot of the ideas that I've developed in this book actually I think I can trace to some of
1:44
my time at the Kennedy School and particularly around the critique of business and the need for systemic
1:51
change so my book is called the profiteers how business privatizes profit and socializes cost uh I'll
1:57
present a couple ideas uh from the book obviously 20 minutes I'm not going to present um the whole thing I can't talk
2:04
that fast but um but a couple things so first of all regarding the title uh so
2:11
it's very much a critique of our current uh business and economic system however
2:19
if the publisher would have let me I would have had a little bit of a longer title and sort of after how business
2:25
privatizes profit and socializes cost would have and what we can do about it because
2:30
a lot of the book as well is trying to understand how businesses in many cases
2:36
working with policy makers and uh the NGS can actually help reverse some of
2:43
the systemic problems um that we have so we need these changes now because you
2:49
know the world is in a tremendously dire situation you probably hear this and see
2:55
this all the time so I won't Bel labor you with all the headlines here but from climate inequality issues of systemic
3:02
discrimination you know there are really big challenges that we have in the world and business I think many times gets
3:08
blamed for them and I think rightfully so however as well I think that business
3:14
can help provide some solutions although you know I want to don't want to sound like a Pana but I want to say that
3:20
actually working very much hand inand with uh with policy makers as where
3:26
where we're going to end up a major critique that I think is in many cases right on target as to why uh we're in
3:34
this situation is that you know the neoliberal um system that is really
3:39
dominant nowadays has focused on uh an economic system where companies
3:45
particularly publicly tra publicly traded companies are beholden in a very short-term fashion to their shareholders
3:53
so in order to actually deliver quarterly returns they sacrifice on a lot of environmental and social goods
4:00
and this has led to huge levels of inequality over the past 50 years and lots of environmental degradation I
4:06
generally think this is at some level a a reasonable and you know accurate critique but why I wrote the book and
4:14
and where I think that a lot of the solutions have gone wrong is that
4:20
they've been focused on an idea that business shouldn't just focus on its shareholders but should focus on a
4:26
broader set of stakeholders I think that sort of makes sense you know like okay let's just not focus on this one limited
4:33
group but actually open it up and focus on a broader set of them however you know as I'll say a little bit about I
4:39
think this also introduces a lot of really serious problems that we need to be uh thinking differently about so you
4:46
know this idea of stakeholder capitalism businesses focusing on stakeholders you know is really famously been introduced
4:54
by these leading organizations like the world economic Forum The Business Roundtable you know equally as Elite
5:00
this is the trade group of the 200 largest US firms uh huge press coverage
5:06
on their you know statement around business being responsible to all or committed to all stakeholders uh I you
5:14
know at the time thought you know I'm not really sure if they'll actually follow through on that but at least it gets it in the public conversation but
5:21
actually I don't even think it's worth it getting in the public conversation based on sort of the progress that that
5:27
is that has occurred uh you know the problem is I think these actors have found is that when you say something
5:34
people will check later on if you actually do it and you know this uh
5:39
stakeholder capitalism idea of the business round table has really turned out in my opinion to be a big giant
5:45
greenwashing effort so very early on there were a number of case studies that
5:50
journalists mostly picked up upon that really show the inconsistency so you have this example here in the New York
5:57
Times where Marriotts a signatory to the business Round Table
6:02
sort of in aide is that Marriott is actually very uh involved at Cornell in its Hotel school where I used to
6:08
actually be a faculty member and the CEO of Marriott is always talking about their you know commitment to the
6:14
business Round Table however as this article very I think as astutely and
6:19
accurately portrays uh when Co hit you know of course Hospitality businesses
6:25
have to make hard choices you know you can't necessarily keep employ everyone
6:30
um but they were very quick quicker than many competitors in laying people off
6:36
cutting benefits uh again I you know willing to be open-minded about this it's it's a hard time however at the
6:43
same time they increased their dividend and gave their CEO arrays so this
6:48
dichotomy I think really points to the sort of inconsistencies of these um
6:53
stakeholder capitalism uh pronouncements so now we're five years into this and there's
6:59
been number of academic and journalistic investigations of this you probably SE
7:05
the I think the business week Bloomberg Business Week had something uh the guardian um uh a number of academics
7:12
have analyzed this pretty rigorously so I I have a quote here from a study uh that's published in a finance Journal by
7:19
some academics at Yale in Colombia and you can read this quote here relative to
7:24
peers signatories violate environmental and labor laws more frequently have higher carbon commissions rely more on
7:31
government subsidies and are more likely to disagree with proxy recommendations on shareholder proposals which are
7:36
frequently around you know a variety of social good areas I read that because it
7:42
is really even surprising to me that they are doing worse on all of these
7:50
stakeholder focused topics than than their peers uh and I would have maybe
7:57
not thought they would do worse I thought maybe they just would do about the same um another uh paper that that
8:03
analyzed this actually tries to explain this you know why are they actually doing doing worse uh and it and they
8:10
refer to it as like a moral licensing problem so you know this idea is more
8:15
prevalent in Psychology you know many of you I see some some head shaking are familiar with it you know the idea that
8:20
if you do something good you feel licensed to do something bad so you know I sort of got up early and worked out
8:27
this morning so I you know had a donnut after after lunch I felt totally I felt licensed to do that so you know these
8:34
companies by saying that they're you know stakeholder focused actually feel emboldened to actually you know violate
8:40
that in more substantial ways which these very rigorous analyses have shown uh I won't belabor you at the point but
8:47
also a lot of the um you know governmental efforts over the past
8:52
decade for companies to be more sustainable they've also worked very hard to block as well as um undermining
9:00
a variety of other programs so so so you could one on the one hand say the
9:06
Business Roundtable large companies you know these are sort of bad apples these are companies that you know they're just
9:13
really focused on short-term profit so you know of course you know you can't um you know you sort of can't trust them uh
9:20
but I think the bigger issue is that this idea of stakeholder capitalism uh that they're supposedly following and
9:26
that is widespreadly believed there 's actually uh almost 10,000 studies in the
9:33
academic literature that look at this idea and how um you know being more
9:39
stakeholder oriented is good for for companies so this is an incredibly widespread um you know set of ideas but
9:46
I think it's actually problematic for a couple reasons one is I think it it it encourages firms to
9:53
greenwash not although there might be some greenwashing in a traditional sense where they're just communicating things
10:00
and not doing them I think this is a greenwashing uh in a term of
10:05
selectively uh doing positive things to distract from other negative things so
10:10
it's like oh I'm doing this sort of shiny stakeholder capitalism thing ignore the fact that
10:16
I'm doing all these um negative things so some of my academic research has looked at similar uh processes I'll
10:23
example that in a second I also think it it relies on very questionable
10:28
assumptions that doing well uh excuse me doing good leads to to doing well uh
10:35
this is also something you hear a lot about when you're talking to businesses about sustainability and clearly there
10:42
are examples where you know companies have environmental they they install LED
10:48
lights and they have some environmental savings and and this is like good for their bottom line and good for the
10:53
environment uh but those examples are minuscule compared to the big problems
11:00
that business cause and I think that you know relying on this doing well by doing good actually distracts from much more
11:07
fundamental um uh reforms which are totally necessary uh and I think this business Round Table example in
11:14
particular is one where you know if they're able to actually convince the
11:20
public and lawmakers which I think they generally have that oh this is in our
11:25
interest you know we have this win-win we're going to do well we're this will lead to you know or excuse me do good
11:31
this will lead to us doing well that there's much less pressure on them to do
11:37
um you know sort of negative or do do uh sort of uh real reform you see this
11:42
today interestingly in AI company governance uh um a lot of the AI
11:48
companies from anthropic and open Ai and and xai Elon musks um Venture are
11:55
organizing as benefit corporations which are companies that have governance that
12:01
that supposedly tie them Beyond shareholder Primacy and I think that a big reason for this is they're trying to
12:06
avoid um avoid regulation so an example of this a
12:12
little more concrete is Pepsi so Pepsi is a company that is lotted for its
12:20
focus on stakeholders it wins Awards you can see this just Capital uh you know seal they have here for being on the
12:26
just Capital 100 uh which is based on sort of a stakeholder logic they get
12:32
written up for for buying B corporations uh and I'm sure they do
12:38
great things in whatever they're be they're being rated on however like the
12:43
fundamental business of Pepsi is pretty destructive in my opinion uh sure you
12:48
know of course we should all be able to drink you know soft drinks if we want but the focus they've had on um uh on
12:57
the ingredients uh around high fructose corn syrup which has been tied to being
13:03
a carcinogen their Fredo division has actually has been exposed for actually
13:10
making food more addictive um and these are practices which they actually Lobby
13:16
the government to um to be able to continue perpetuating so um so that's
13:22
sort of one issue also with pollution is another uh another big issue and plastic
13:29
is a huge problem in our world as as many of you know and recycling of
13:35
plastic really is not working uh very effectively but they're very actively telling people how they should recycle
13:42
PL uh Etc okay uh a a second issue that I mentioned is this wiwin logic there's
13:48
been a lot of debunking of studies that have focused on this idea that doing well by doing good very thin uh evidence
13:57
so I think that the stakeholder logic around business reform is
14:04
insufficient you know of course businesses should do well by their employees they should do well by their customers I'm not saying that we should
14:09
ignore you know sort of ignore stakeholders but this is a logic to actually sort of improve and reform and
14:15
make the world better I think is very lacking so I think that that businesses should be much more accountable for
14:22
their underlying business model and what that business model actually delivers to the world and that means that we don't
14:28
just look at selective positives but we actually dig into the negatives uh that
14:35
result from uh from from the business production so the subtitle of the book
14:40
how business privatizes profit and socializes cost focuses on uh the concept of externalities which I I
14:48
unpack a lot in the book and you can see here it illustrated by this um by this
14:53
nice little graphic uh from a New York Times article from a couple months ago that I highly recommend very good uh
14:59
discussion of of how much of you know what we eat and consume and buy actually
15:04
has huge amounts of externalities uh in the costs and you can see here for beef
15:10
you know people pay $5 dollar but actually um you know lot lots of lots of external costs from emissions and and
15:17
land use Etc so when I've briefly introduced the book
15:22
to to various uh faculty and friends in economics uh no offense to any
15:28
economists in the room you know they say oh you know we've have externalities figured out we're we're economists um
15:34
and I well anyways there's a lot of good Insight from economists on externalities I don't want any hard questions from you
15:40
later uh but uh but I think we need to do a lot more uh in a couple ways so one
15:48
is that the systems that are usually um sort of articulated like that cow beef
15:55
externality diagram are focused on the a that we can actually really accurately
16:02
price uh an account for externalities through some um you know sort of Market
16:07
or pricing logic certainly I think trying to dig into that is really really important but I think that just focusing
16:13
on the economics and accounting aspect misses how socially and politically constructed uh these ideas
16:20
are uh companies are very actively lobing and doing PR and communication uh
16:27
uh PL programs to actually deflect uh attention from many of the the uh areas
16:33
that they uh focus on a big focus of the book I have a whole chapter on these in
16:38
misinformation strategies I won't go over them in detail but but a lot of work um from companies like pepsy in the
16:45
packaging industry uh have been on you know socializing ideas of the litter
16:50
buug and individual carbon footprints that actually transfers the
16:56
responsibility of waste and emission to individuals as opposed to companies and I think this is something we need to you
17:02
know sort of reverse and actually understand how um you know how these you know our our ideas of what a responsible
17:09
company is uh have been shaped by those companies themselves in a way that very is very
17:14
self-interested I think it also ignores how endemic the issues around
17:21
externalities are uh and there's a semi list there the environmental ones are
17:27
ones that actually get a lot of headlines but there's a lot of socially oriented ones around income and wealth
17:33
inequality and discrimination and most of these costs
17:38
are actually being borne by people you know very far away from where we are here and living in very different
17:45
circumstances uh than than we are here and so you know we have these sort of wonderful lives that are you know not
17:52
almost completely but very substantially um underwritten by people living in very poor uh conditions and I
17:59
think that is something we need to put a lot more attention on so that in general
18:06
is you know some of the critique um what I think looking more positively I am
18:12
actually pretty optimistic um and and and and sort of Reform Orient reform
18:17
thinking person uh and I do think that actually unpacking this idea of
18:22
externalities and the societal uh and political processes underlying that actually help businesses
18:30
identify uh areas for Innovation uh and also how Collective
18:36
action is important uh in in this as well let me give you one example of this is a company I studied called Grove
18:42
collaborative actually one of The Inspirations for this book uh was in an interview that I did with uh the co
18:49
co-founder and chair uh who's there Stu lansberg who's now a pretty pretty good friend uh and he described to me how
18:57
when they his company when he found founded this thought about responsibility it was about eliminating
19:03
plastic and you know you think about this business I I should tell you what they do I guess I guess first so they
19:09
are like a HomeGoods and cleaning supply and health and beauty uh company and
19:15
produce all kinds of products that are traditionally delivered in liquid form
19:20
which means that actually plastic is a pretty important material because to to
19:25
to sort of ship um uh and and deliver to consumer this liquids you need some non-porous
19:31
type container so he said you know we are not focused you know we're certainly
19:37
focused on our employees and communities Etc but we realize that if we want to be a responsible company we have to focus
19:43
on the externality that most stems from our business and that is plastic and
19:49
this actually Focus has led to an amazing set of Innovations and business
19:54
process re-engineering within the firm for instance as someone uh who grew up in the 1970s and 80s you know I did not
Replying to @gecko39
The Profiteers: How Business Privatizes Profits and Socializes Costs
Transcript 20:02 to 39:59
youtube.com/watch?v=Aqor91e-…
From climate change to inequality, public leaders grapple with some of the biggest crises of our day.
Addressing them requires multi-sector approaches that rebalance the interrelationships between corporations, governments, and civil society.
Christopher Marquis of the Cambridge Judge Business School and author of the book
The Profiteers: How Business Privatizes Profit and Socializes Cost, explored economics-driven assumptions of our world from a sociological perspective at the Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University, moderated by Center faculty affiliate and Harvard Kennedy School professor Matthew Lee.
The event was co-sponsored by the Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University and Social Innovation + Change Initiative at Harvard Kennedy School.
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Show transcript
Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University
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20:02
realize that shampoos could be actually delivered in bar form you know you you actually you know didn't need liquid for
20:09
for shampoo this has been really sort of mind you know sort of changing um you know change my perspective on things so
20:15
anyway so they create all these Innovative project products that actually don't use any liquid and have
20:21
won a variety of awards for this and it's really positioned them very well uh in in their industry also they were able
20:27
to create like a costing mechanism within their company to um to assess the business
20:35
line managers to whether or not they're actually um you know sort of reducing plastic or not within their business
20:41
line and then finally they also created a a like badging um uh setup so
20:46
consumers to help educate consumers around this idea so um you know you know
20:53
as he said to me it's better to be recycling but that's actually not the choice we as an industry have in many ways
20:59
the idea the many of the sort of ideas I try to unpack in the book are about sort
21:05
of thinking about sort of waste and other you know externalities that
21:10
companies have in in new and different ways because usually companies are just thinking about you know oh we'll recycle
21:17
and even the policy interventions uh on this topic like
21:22
there's a lot of work around extended producer responsibility uh bills uh in Europe in the US frequently FOC us on
21:29
you know recycling as systems and funding recycling systems as opposed to actually limitating and reducing it uh
21:35
and also there's huge um resistance to that in in Korea there just recently uh
21:40
some work to have an international agreement on plastic but the you know Plastic industry basically um you
21:47
derailed that so as I sort of work through the book uh sort of where I end
21:53
up is trying is trying to help businesses
21:59
shift their mindsets from the a traditional sustainability perspective
22:04
which is more about doing less harm uh to one where how actually can the
22:10
Business Systems be created to actually add Positively to to the world um there
22:18
is increasing um interest in moving from like a discourse of sustainability to
22:23
one around regeneration which again sort of takes from this like do less harm to more about sort of restoring
22:30
revitalizing you know ecosystems um uh communities Etc uh one of the examples I
22:36
give about that is Patagonia I hate to use Patagonia because they're sort of always the poster shout for you know
22:43
sustainable business but I think here it's a really uh useful example because when I interviewed um this gentleman
22:52
here Vincent Stanley who has this wonderful title of director of philosophy so he said you know we have
22:58
been operating at at this point you know 40 45 years and we have always been very
23:04
focused on sustainability very focused on the environment very focused on organic but actually not until they got
23:09
into the food business uh with Patagonia de Provisions did they realized that
23:14
actually there was a fundamental you know issue with some of the key logic
23:20
that they had around their sustainability program so what he told me is that when they were when they um
23:27
were were sort of working with farmers and producers on their products they
23:33
realize that if done correctly which is sort of like people did a hundred years ago and before if you agriculture uh can
23:43
actually um sort of you know Aid in soil soil Rejuvenation rebuild ecosystems you
23:50
know Foster biodiversity you know these ideas of of regeneration and he said um
23:55
you know we were a business that was so committed to the envir environment you know but we realize that in our mission
24:01
statement in our whole perspective is about doing less harm and the fact that
24:08
harm that they're admitting they're doing harm is in their mission statement sort of rethinking in their business led
24:13
to this um you know New Vision of wor business sa home planet lots of uh you
24:20
know working with consumers to discourage and help them just consume
24:26
appropriate amounts not over consume like vast fashion things like extending life of their products around you know
24:34
sort of secondhand marketplaces repair um reuse Etc uh obviously very a lot of
24:40
Upstream um type of things too around materials and and production so so really they're looking at their entire
24:46
value chain and seeing you know how can each part of that be built in a much more um regenerative fashion so in
24:53
closing um one of the things I sort of close the book with
24:59
uh in the last section I have a variety of sort of you know policy investment you know you know Collective action
25:05
businesses and U consumer uh uh factors that can help and I focus on this idea
25:11
of sort of no silver bullets I think that so many uh Solutions are presented
25:17
as we need to do this this is the one thing that is most essential and you know given the state of the world we
25:22
need to do everything uh basically you know this is frequently presented to me
25:28
you know people are very focused on carbon markets and I and I mean I think their carbon markets are great but they're not they're part of the solution
25:35
or a variety of other policy implementations so this quote by Eisenhower I think and it it sort of
25:40
connects the Grove collaborative and Patagonia example uh where he talked about when he was organizing the D-Day
25:49
Landing uh and you know Eisenhower was not like a battlefield General he was
25:54
one that focused on the logistics and Supply um uh Etc and he and so the D-Day Landing you know
26:00
this amazing organizational feat he said you know I never um sort of try to think
26:07
make things smaller I think about making things sort bigger and by that he means you know usually when you have a big
26:13
project people say oh break it down into little pieces and you know that is a way to sort of help solve it but he thinks
26:20
that you need to actually see the larger Contours of the issue to actually see
26:26
those connections and that's in many ways how I see these challenges that we have that we need to be thinking like
26:33
you know sort of Patagonia and entering new area eras to open your mindsets to
26:38
making those different connections uh because the system we're in the sort of neoliberal system you know promotes
26:45
things like stakeholder capitalism which are solutions which are embodied within
26:51
the existing system and we need to be you know thinking very much uh beyond
26:56
that uh one of the things I'm very conscious of in general but also I know
27:02
I'm here at a school that's focused on public policy is that I focus a lot of my attention on the private sector and
27:09
business and I think that how business and policy work together it's sort of like a one two punch almost you know
27:16
we're never going to get where we need to go with just voluntary action from companies the things I've talked about
27:23
in the book are really excellent as uh sort of business case
27:29
validations uh you know Innovations to show how things work but actually need
27:34
to have them translated into mandatory um um stipulations through policy and
27:42
now that I've been sort of teaching and researching this for 20 some years now it's been amazing to see some of those things come to fruition where some of
27:49
the early you know voluntary things have now been um sort of moved into more um
27:55
you know sort of mandatory I also think we need many other things new investment
28:00
policies and approaches ownership is a huge huge issue uh particularly uh in
28:08
more developed context uh really it's it's so focused on making the rich get
28:14
richer uh and is exacerbated income inequality and there is a lot of Reform very interesting things going on and
28:19
consumers too I think you know I'll mention consumers a lot of attention gets put on consumers saying oh consumer
28:26
we need the you know the sort of millennial you know conscious consumers
28:32
are going to save us uh and I think that's just another way to deflect responsibility from uh companies where
28:38
where actually the responsibility should be I'll finish here that you know the time is now we really need to step up uh
28:46
and make change and I think that you know in combination with policy that
28:52
business uh has a tremendous uh role to play in creating Innovations uh in new
28:58
models that then can be translated into much more formal laws and it's really
29:05
essential that we do this because this idea of businesses doing this through their own voluntary
29:11
self-interest uh you know has not gotten us anywhere in 50 years and so with that
29:17
I will turn it over to you [Applause]
29:25
Matt as I mentioned at the beginning ask Chris a few questions and then we'll open it up to questions from the
29:31
audience uh I'm so glad you wrote this book Chris because uh it wraps together a bunch of ideas that I know you've been
29:37
working on for a long time and I think this Frame of how business externalizes or socialize costs is a very neat uh way
29:45
of of trying to to capture all of that um it won't be surprising to you that I agree with a lot of the ideas in your
29:51
book uh but I do think there's some real questions about the pathway to this positive Vision that you're trying to
29:56
describe and so let me ask ask a few of those and try to dig into those a little
30:01
bit so the first one is um you
30:07
really critique neoliberalism and uh I think that I'll
30:13
just read a quote uh in from the book you say the the neoliberal tactic of saying the government should address
30:19
externalities through taxes or other pricing mechanisms is nothing more than a way to avoid
30:25
responsibility um I want to dig into this a little bit because I think things like uh cap and trade and other
30:32
price-based mechanisms are pretty popular and accepted among the policy Community as the way that you solve
30:39
these kinds of issues or at least a big part of how you solve these kinds of issues and so I wonder as you think
30:44
about this alternative pathway what is the role of these kind of traditional neoliberal tools within this positive
30:52
Vision that you're trying to describe yeah good great question thank you so I think that all of those things are
30:57
totally essential uh so I'm I'm not in any way
31:02
um anti though against those you know like
31:07
cap and trade or various sort of pricing or Market based um programs for carbon
31:15
emissions or various you know ways to tax and and limit things like plastic
31:21
pollution Etc I think I think those are really essential however I think that so
31:28
often business has tried to avoid a broader responsibility that they should
31:36
have by saying like oh well consumers want this so we should give it to them
31:42
and then the bad things you know is about the you know the government should actually take care of it I think that
31:49
there should be a lot more well for instance you know there's a variety of sort of taxing uh and
31:58
programs on plastic pollution um so should should we doing doing that or
32:05
actually not allowing companies to produce things in plastic uh I think that so I'm I'm all for I mean B I mean
32:13
I think that the the only way we're going to get there is through policy uh strong policy interventions
32:21
but um but the the the the larger businesses have a lot of ways of
32:27
distracting from what actually the underlying responsibility they have is and one is by pointing the finger and
32:32
saying it's the government's responsibility so I see so it's not a problem with the kind of principle of
32:37
putting a price on these things no it's just so hard to implement that that's not really a so I think that's part
32:43
that's part of the solution certainly that's part but but it's not some magic bullet that is going to solve solve
32:50
everything I mean we see that I mean I think these systems are getting better and better but you see actually a lot of times when you put a sort of price on
32:57
carbon companies move elsewhere and that that ends up having some sort of Race To The
33:02
Bottom on environment so now you know Europe has the carbon border adjustment mechanism that is trying to address that
33:08
um as as an example but but I think I think that so I think that yes we need
33:14
we need to think about valuing and pricing uh externalities definitely but that we
33:21
can't just stop there we have to actually think more deeply about um what business responsibility is let me ask
33:28
you about some of these positive examples okay um and again you know I think these are incredible examples that
33:35
that you've pointed to in your book and um frankly what I appreciate about your book among other things is that you have
33:40
a lot of fresh examples that are not kind of rehashing the the old examples of these things um they're still small
33:46
however yes exactly um many of the companies that you mention in the book are pretty small so uh among them and
33:54
these are even maybe some of the larger ones Patagonia all Birds Seventh Generation uh Tony's chocol lonely um
34:02
are all Niche companies within their industries that have been very
34:07
successful in serving a niche customer in a very responsible regenerative right kind of way and so I was just looking at
34:14
it this morning um Patagonia sales are said to be something like $1 billion a year um but the outdoor apparel Market
34:20
is something like $35 billion so Patagonia has been at this for 50 years and they have 3% of their Market and so
34:28
as you think about making this more than a niche thing right if Patagonia is really trying to solve the end problem
34:34
of uh the damage that's done by apparel manufacturing um what is the theory of
34:41
Change by which we scale those Solutions right is it Patagonia selling 30 times as many clo clothes is it other
34:48
companies adopting what Patagonia does is it government regulation what's the what's the formula so so um yeah so
34:55
again sort of I don't think there's any sort of silver bullet uh but I would so the of the three options that
35:02
you gave the sort of implicit or somewhat explicit U theory of the book
35:09
is the government R government one uh and so you know the the idea is that so
35:17
if you look at Patagonia so they they as as just as as an example they've
35:23
actually been very active in collectively organizing in a bunch of
35:28
sectors um that you know around packaging uh is one U around
35:35
regenerative agriculture is is actually I guess yeah one that I'll say a little more about so the idea of like
35:40
regenerative you see this word all around nowadays like what what does that mean um you know that you know that
35:46
could mean anything or nothing uh Pepsi you know Pepsi is big into regenerative I don't think they have any sort of you
35:52
know way to judge that they can call it regenerative maybe they have a pig you know warming around round or something
35:58
I'm not I'm not not sure uh so so they actually been have come together with a
36:04
variety of NGS with other private sector organizations and created a standard
36:09
which many people tell me and I I I'm not an expert in agriculture so I can't is really a very rigorous and important
36:16
standard that is global uh uh now and
36:22
can be adopted similar type things by governments to
36:28
uh to hopefully diffuse that idea so in many ways the sort of connecting the
36:33
dots on the theory is not that Patagonia is going to take over the world or that
36:39
they're they're they're necessarily are going to be voluntarily adopted by I
36:44
don't know Northface or or whomever because change is of large companies is really really really hard but what I
36:51
hope is that by proving models collectively organizing to also to show
36:56
they work that we can pre we can show that these are actually solutions that
37:02
can be implemented in a policy way so that this is this is really interesting
37:07
because I think you know the the kind of accepted wisdom in the social Enterprise
37:12
Community is that social Enterprises are creating ways of doing things that they hope that companies will voluntarily
37:19
adopt and you're suggesting something different which is that if I'm a social entrepreneur uh I should actually be
37:25
designing what I'm doing in a way that's going to eventually make it possible to be adopted in regulation not as a a
37:32
voluntary I yes exactly and this and I um so for instance one one area where
37:39
I've where I've seen this uh that I think is you know the I mean I think it's going to be a very powerful thing
37:44
well time will tell but you know the EU uh recently passed the corporate
37:49
sustainability reporting directive csrd it's I think if you haven't heard about it yet it's going to be a very big deal
37:56
uh because of actually how it enforces accountability for not just EU companies
38:04
but actually it's designed in a way that it's actually going to affect basically all reasonably sized companies in the world in a very rigorous way so this is
38:14
actually built on the shoulders of a lot of private sector and NGO action around
38:22
sort of broadly speaking ESG or sustainability standard so we have you know 20 years of
38:28
experimentation refining best practices lots of things going on and
38:35
those can get adopted by um you know by the government I think that that in like
38:42
the regenerative organic is one where they're working to try to get that adopted as another
38:47
example let me turn to the question of local action so a lot of the ideas that
38:52
you develop in the book are very Global or systemic in nature which makes total
38:58
sense given the global or systemic interdependence of the kinds of issues that you're describing in the book um we
39:05
are in a center for cities and uh so I wanted to ask you a question about the
39:11
role of local action and turns out also that Chris is an expert in community
39:17
level analysis of business and Society issues um and so you know I wonder what
39:23
you see as the role of of local situated action in trying to address these
39:29
broader you know regenerative system level questions um and so if you were
39:36
giving advice to local leaders or people who aren't necessarily in a position to
39:41
try to affect these large systems um what advice would you give to them about their role in concert with the other
39:47
kinds of things you've described good question uh I guess given this is a center for cities we we we should be
39:52
thinking about this um and you really built me up as some expert on community so I should have some really really good
39:59
answer um uh I must admit that I have not thought tremendously I mean the book
The Profiteers: How Business Privatizes Profits and Socializes Costs
Transcript 0:00 to 19:54
Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University
29JAN2025
youtube.com/watch?v=Aqor91e-…
From climate change to inequality, public leaders grapple with some of the biggest crises of our day.
Addressing them requires multi-sector approaches that rebalance the interrelationships between corporations, governments, and civil society.
Christopher Marquis of the Cambridge Judge Business School and author of the book
The Profiteers: How Business Privatizes Profit and Socializes Cost, explored economics-driven assumptions of our world from a sociological perspective at the Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University, moderated by Center faculty affiliate and Harvard Kennedy School professor Matthew Lee.
The event was co-sponsored by the Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University and Social Innovation + Change Initiative at Harvard Kennedy School.
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Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University
Chapters
Transcript
0:00
good afternoon thank you for joining us my name is Matthew Lee I'm an associate professor here at the Harvard Kennedy
0:07
School and it's my pleasure to welcome you here to the Bloomberg Center for cities for this afternoon's event uh
0:12
with Professor Christopher Maris Christopher Marquis is the senior professor at the judge business school
0:18
previously he was a professor at the Harvard Business School and the Cornell Johnson school he's an award-winning researcher having published countless
0:25
articles in leading journals on issues related to corporate social responsibility insti Theory and on
0:31
business and Society issues in China his productivity across a wide variety of topics is the stuff of Legend Among Us
0:37
management Scholars on a personal note I'd add that Chris is a generous friend and Mentor who had a major impact on my
0:43
own development as a co-author and academic mentor of mine uh when I was a doctoral student at HBS so this
0:50
afternoon's program will proceed as follows we'll start with Chris giving a brief summary of his book The propers
0:57
and remarks about um the ideas that he velops in his new book we'll then have a conversation uh between Chris and I
1:04
about a few questions that came up for me as I was reading the book finally we'll reserve the last 20 minutes or so
1:10
for questions from the audience uh and with that let me hand it over to
1:20
Chris he uh well thank you so much Matt for the kind introduction thank you all for coming really wonderful to be here
1:27
at the kendi school in this space I I actually spent 2017 and 2018 here as a
1:32
visiting faculty member and there wasn't anything uh like this so it's so really amazing to to see this um I mentioned
1:39
that because actually a lot of the ideas that I've developed in this book actually I think I can trace to some of
1:44
my time at the Kennedy School and particularly around the critique of business and the need for systemic
1:51
change so my book is called the profiteers how business privatizes profit and socializes cost uh I'll
1:57
present a couple ideas uh from the book obviously 20 minutes I'm not going to present um the whole thing I can't talk
2:04
that fast but um but a couple things so first of all regarding the title uh so
2:11
it's very much a critique of our current uh business and economic system however
2:19
if the publisher would have let me I would have had a little bit of a longer title and sort of after how business
2:25
privatizes profit and socializes cost would have and what we can do about it because
2:30
a lot of the book as well is trying to understand how businesses in many cases
2:36
working with policy makers and uh the NGS can actually help reverse some of
2:43
the systemic problems um that we have so we need these changes now because you
2:49
know the world is in a tremendously dire situation you probably hear this and see
2:55
this all the time so I won't Bel labor you with all the headlines here but from climate inequality issues of systemic
3:02
discrimination you know there are really big challenges that we have in the world and business I think many times gets
3:08
blamed for them and I think rightfully so however as well I think that business
3:14
can help provide some solutions although you know I want to don't want to sound like a Pana but I want to say that
3:20
actually working very much hand inand with uh with policy makers as where
3:26
where we're going to end up a major critique that I think is in many cases right on target as to why uh we're in
3:34
this situation is that you know the neoliberal um system that is really
3:39
dominant nowadays has focused on uh an economic system where companies
3:45
particularly publicly tra publicly traded companies are beholden in a very short-term fashion to their shareholders
3:53
so in order to actually deliver quarterly returns they sacrifice on a lot of environmental and social goods
4:00
and this has led to huge levels of inequality over the past 50 years and lots of environmental degradation I
4:06
generally think this is at some level a a reasonable and you know accurate critique but why I wrote the book and
4:14
and where I think that a lot of the solutions have gone wrong is that
4:20
they've been focused on an idea that business shouldn't just focus on its shareholders but should focus on a
4:26
broader set of stakeholders I think that sort of makes sense you know like okay let's just not focus on this one limited
4:33
group but actually open it up and focus on a broader set of them however you know as I'll say a little bit about I
4:39
think this also introduces a lot of really serious problems that we need to be uh thinking differently about so you
4:46
know this idea of stakeholder capitalism businesses focusing on stakeholders you know is really famously been introduced
4:54
by these leading organizations like the world economic Forum The Business Roundtable you know equally as Elite
5:00
this is the trade group of the 200 largest US firms uh huge press coverage
5:06
on their you know statement around business being responsible to all or committed to all stakeholders uh I you
5:14
know at the time thought you know I'm not really sure if they'll actually follow through on that but at least it gets it in the public conversation but
5:21
actually I don't even think it's worth it getting in the public conversation based on sort of the progress that that
5:27
is that has occurred uh you know the problem is I think these actors have found is that when you say something
5:34
people will check later on if you actually do it and you know this uh
5:39
stakeholder capitalism idea of the business round table has really turned out in my opinion to be a big giant
5:45
greenwashing effort so very early on there were a number of case studies that
5:50
journalists mostly picked up upon that really show the inconsistency so you have this example here in the New York
5:57
Times where Marriotts a signatory to the business Round Table
6:02
sort of in aide is that Marriott is actually very uh involved at Cornell in its Hotel school where I used to
6:08
actually be a faculty member and the CEO of Marriott is always talking about their you know commitment to the
6:14
business Round Table however as this article very I think as astutely and
6:19
accurately portrays uh when Co hit you know of course Hospitality businesses
6:25
have to make hard choices you know you can't necessarily keep employ everyone
6:30
um but they were very quick quicker than many competitors in laying people off
6:36
cutting benefits uh again I you know willing to be open-minded about this it's it's a hard time however at the
6:43
same time they increased their dividend and gave their CEO arrays so this
6:48
dichotomy I think really points to the sort of inconsistencies of these um
6:53
stakeholder capitalism uh pronouncements so now we're five years into this and there's
6:59
been number of academic and journalistic investigations of this you probably SE
7:05
the I think the business week Bloomberg Business Week had something uh the guardian um uh a number of academics
7:12
have analyzed this pretty rigorously so I I have a quote here from a study uh that's published in a finance Journal by
7:19
some academics at Yale in Colombia and you can read this quote here relative to
7:24
peers signatories violate environmental and labor laws more frequently have higher carbon commissions rely more on
7:31
government subsidies and are more likely to disagree with proxy recommendations on shareholder proposals which are
7:36
frequently around you know a variety of social good areas I read that because it
7:42
is really even surprising to me that they are doing worse on all of these
7:50
stakeholder focused topics than than their peers uh and I would have maybe
7:57
not thought they would do worse I thought maybe they just would do about the same um another uh paper that that
8:03
analyzed this actually tries to explain this you know why are they actually doing doing worse uh and it and they
8:10
refer to it as like a moral licensing problem so you know this idea is more
8:15
prevalent in Psychology you know many of you I see some some head shaking are familiar with it you know the idea that
8:20
if you do something good you feel licensed to do something bad so you know I sort of got up early and worked out
8:27
this morning so I you know had a donnut after after lunch I felt totally I felt licensed to do that so you know these
8:34
companies by saying that they're you know stakeholder focused actually feel emboldened to actually you know violate
8:40
that in more substantial ways which these very rigorous analyses have shown uh I won't belabor you at the point but
8:47
also a lot of the um you know governmental efforts over the past
8:52
decade for companies to be more sustainable they've also worked very hard to block as well as um undermining
9:00
a variety of other programs so so so you could one on the one hand say the
9:06
Business Roundtable large companies you know these are sort of bad apples these are companies that you know they're just
9:13
really focused on short-term profit so you know of course you know you can't um you know you sort of can't trust them uh
9:20
but I think the bigger issue is that this idea of stakeholder capitalism uh that they're supposedly following and
9:26
that is widespreadly believed there 's actually uh almost 10,000 studies in the
9:33
academic literature that look at this idea and how um you know being more
9:39
stakeholder oriented is good for for companies so this is an incredibly widespread um you know set of ideas but
9:46
I think it's actually problematic for a couple reasons one is I think it it it encourages firms to
9:53
greenwash not although there might be some greenwashing in a traditional sense where they're just communicating things
10:00
and not doing them I think this is a greenwashing uh in a term of
10:05
selectively uh doing positive things to distract from other negative things so
10:10
it's like oh I'm doing this sort of shiny stakeholder capitalism thing ignore the fact that
10:16
I'm doing all these um negative things so some of my academic research has looked at similar uh processes I'll
10:23
example that in a second I also think it it relies on very questionable
10:28
assumptions that doing well uh excuse me doing good leads to to doing well uh
10:35
this is also something you hear a lot about when you're talking to businesses about sustainability and clearly there
10:42
are examples where you know companies have environmental they they install LED
10:48
lights and they have some environmental savings and and this is like good for their bottom line and good for the
10:53
environment uh but those examples are minuscule compared to the big problems
11:00
that business cause and I think that you know relying on this doing well by doing good actually distracts from much more
11:07
fundamental um uh reforms which are totally necessary uh and I think this business Round Table example in
11:14
particular is one where you know if they're able to actually convince the
11:20
public and lawmakers which I think they generally have that oh this is in our
11:25
interest you know we have this win-win we're going to do well we're this will lead to you know or excuse me do good
11:31
this will lead to us doing well that there's much less pressure on them to do
11:37
um you know sort of negative or do do uh sort of uh real reform you see this
11:42
today interestingly in AI company governance uh um a lot of the AI
11:48
companies from anthropic and open Ai and and xai Elon musks um Venture are
11:55
organizing as benefit corporations which are companies that have governance that
12:01
that supposedly tie them Beyond shareholder Primacy and I think that a big reason for this is they're trying to
12:06
avoid um avoid regulation so an example of this a
12:12
little more concrete is Pepsi so Pepsi is a company that is lotted for its
12:20
focus on stakeholders it wins Awards you can see this just Capital uh you know seal they have here for being on the
12:26
just Capital 100 uh which is based on sort of a stakeholder logic they get
12:32
written up for for buying B corporations uh and I'm sure they do
12:38
great things in whatever they're be they're being rated on however like the
12:43
fundamental business of Pepsi is pretty destructive in my opinion uh sure you
12:48
know of course we should all be able to drink you know soft drinks if we want but the focus they've had on um uh on
12:57
the ingredients uh around high fructose corn syrup which has been tied to being
13:03
a carcinogen their Fredo division has actually has been exposed for actually
13:10
making food more addictive um and these are practices which they actually Lobby
13:16
the government to um to be able to continue perpetuating so um so that's
13:22
sort of one issue also with pollution is another uh another big issue and plastic
13:29
is a huge problem in our world as as many of you know and recycling of
13:35
plastic really is not working uh very effectively but they're very actively telling people how they should recycle
13:42
PL uh Etc okay uh a a second issue that I mentioned is this wiwin logic there's
13:48
been a lot of debunking of studies that have focused on this idea that doing well by doing good very thin uh evidence
13:57
so I think that the stakeholder logic around business reform is
14:04
insufficient you know of course businesses should do well by their employees they should do well by their customers I'm not saying that we should
14:09
ignore you know sort of ignore stakeholders but this is a logic to actually sort of improve and reform and
14:15
make the world better I think is very lacking so I think that that businesses should be much more accountable for
14:22
their underlying business model and what that business model actually delivers to the world and that means that we don't
14:28
just look at selective positives but we actually dig into the negatives uh that
14:35
result from uh from from the business production so the subtitle of the book
14:40
how business privatizes profit and socializes cost focuses on uh the concept of externalities which I I
14:48
unpack a lot in the book and you can see here it illustrated by this um by this
14:53
nice little graphic uh from a New York Times article from a couple months ago that I highly recommend very good uh
14:59
discussion of of how much of you know what we eat and consume and buy actually
15:04
has huge amounts of externalities uh in the costs and you can see here for beef
15:10
you know people pay $5 dollar but actually um you know lot lots of lots of external costs from emissions and and
15:17
land use Etc so when I've briefly introduced the book
15:22
to to various uh faculty and friends in economics uh no offense to any
15:28
economists in the room you know they say oh you know we've have externalities figured out we're we're economists um
15:34
and I well anyways there's a lot of good Insight from economists on externalities I don't want any hard questions from you
15:40
later uh but uh but I think we need to do a lot more uh in a couple ways so one
15:48
is that the systems that are usually um sort of articulated like that cow beef
15:55
externality diagram are focused on the a that we can actually really accurately
16:02
price uh an account for externalities through some um you know sort of Market
16:07
or pricing logic certainly I think trying to dig into that is really really important but I think that just focusing
16:13
on the economics and accounting aspect misses how socially and politically constructed uh these ideas
16:20
are uh companies are very actively lobing and doing PR and communication uh
16:27
uh PL programs to actually deflect uh attention from many of the the uh areas
16:33
that they uh focus on a big focus of the book I have a whole chapter on these in
16:38
misinformation strategies I won't go over them in detail but but a lot of work um from companies like pepsy in the
16:45
packaging industry uh have been on you know socializing ideas of the litter
16:50
buug and individual carbon footprints that actually transfers the
16:56
responsibility of waste and emission to individuals as opposed to companies and I think this is something we need to you
17:02
know sort of reverse and actually understand how um you know how these you know our our ideas of what a responsible
17:09
company is uh have been shaped by those companies themselves in a way that very is very
17:14
self-interested I think it also ignores how endemic the issues around
17:21
externalities are uh and there's a semi list there the environmental ones are
17:27
ones that actually get a lot of headlines but there's a lot of socially oriented ones around income and wealth
17:33
inequality and discrimination and most of these costs
17:38
are actually being borne by people you know very far away from where we are here and living in very different
17:45
circumstances uh than than we are here and so you know we have these sort of wonderful lives that are you know not
17:52
almost completely but very substantially um underwritten by people living in very poor uh conditions and I
17:59
think that is something we need to put a lot more attention on so that in general
18:06
is you know some of the critique um what I think looking more positively I am
18:12
actually pretty optimistic um and and and and sort of Reform Orient reform
18:17
thinking person uh and I do think that actually unpacking this idea of
18:22
externalities and the societal uh and political processes underlying that actually help businesses
18:30
identify uh areas for Innovation uh and also how Collective
18:36
action is important uh in in this as well let me give you one example of this is a company I studied called Grove
18:42
collaborative actually one of The Inspirations for this book uh was in an interview that I did with uh the co
18:49
co-founder and chair uh who's there Stu lansberg who's now a pretty pretty good friend uh and he described to me how
18:57
when they his company when he found founded this thought about responsibility it was about eliminating
19:03
plastic and you know you think about this business I I should tell you what they do I guess I guess first so they
19:09
are like a HomeGoods and cleaning supply and health and beauty uh company and
19:15
produce all kinds of products that are traditionally delivered in liquid form
19:20
which means that actually plastic is a pretty important material because to to
19:25
to sort of ship um uh and and deliver to consumer this liquids you need some non-porous
19:31
type container so he said you know we are not focused you know we're certainly
19:37
focused on our employees and communities Etc but we realize that if we want to be a responsible company we have to focus
19:43
on the externality that most stems from our business and that is plastic and
19:49
this actually Focus has led to an amazing set of Innovations and business
19:54
process re-engineering within the firm for instance as someone uh who grew up in the 1970s and 80s you know I did not
The Profiteers: How Business Privatizes Profits and Socializes Costs
Transcript 20:02 to 39:59
youtube.com/watch?v=Aqor91e-…
From climate change to inequality, public leaders grapple with some of the biggest crises of our day.
Addressing them requires multi-sector approaches that rebalance the interrelationships between corporations, governments, and civil society.
Christopher Marquis of the Cambridge Judge Business School and author of the book
The Profiteers: How Business Privatizes Profit and Socializes Cost, explored economics-driven assumptions of our world from a sociological perspective at the Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University, moderated by Center faculty affiliate and Harvard Kennedy School professor Matthew Lee.
The event was co-sponsored by the Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University and Social Innovation + Change Initiative at Harvard Kennedy School.
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Bloomberg Center for Cities at Harvard University
Chapters
Transcript
20:02
realize that shampoos could be actually delivered in bar form you know you you actually you know didn't need liquid for
20:09
for shampoo this has been really sort of mind you know sort of changing um you know change my perspective on things so
20:15
anyway so they create all these Innovative project products that actually don't use any liquid and have
20:21
won a variety of awards for this and it's really positioned them very well uh in in their industry also they were able
20:27
to create like a costing mechanism within their company to um to assess the business
20:35
line managers to whether or not they're actually um you know sort of reducing plastic or not within their business
20:41
line and then finally they also created a a like badging um uh setup so
20:46
consumers to help educate consumers around this idea so um you know you know
20:53
as he said to me it's better to be recycling but that's actually not the choice we as an industry have in many ways
20:59
the idea the many of the sort of ideas I try to unpack in the book are about sort
21:05
of thinking about sort of waste and other you know externalities that
21:10
companies have in in new and different ways because usually companies are just thinking about you know oh we'll recycle
21:17
and even the policy interventions uh on this topic like
21:22
there's a lot of work around extended producer responsibility uh bills uh in Europe in the US frequently FOC us on
21:29
you know recycling as systems and funding recycling systems as opposed to actually limitating and reducing it uh
21:35
and also there's huge um resistance to that in in Korea there just recently uh
21:40
some work to have an international agreement on plastic but the you know Plastic industry basically um you
21:47
derailed that so as I sort of work through the book uh sort of where I end
21:53
up is trying is trying to help businesses
21:59
shift their mindsets from the a traditional sustainability perspective
22:04
which is more about doing less harm uh to one where how actually can the
22:10
Business Systems be created to actually add Positively to to the world um there
22:18
is increasing um interest in moving from like a discourse of sustainability to
22:23
one around regeneration which again sort of takes from this like do less harm to more about sort of restoring
22:30
revitalizing you know ecosystems um uh communities Etc uh one of the examples I
22:36
give about that is Patagonia I hate to use Patagonia because they're sort of always the poster shout for you know
22:43
sustainable business but I think here it's a really uh useful example because when I interviewed um this gentleman
22:52
here Vincent Stanley who has this wonderful title of director of philosophy so he said you know we have
22:58
been operating at at this point you know 40 45 years and we have always been very
23:04
focused on sustainability very focused on the environment very focused on organic but actually not until they got
23:09
into the food business uh with Patagonia de Provisions did they realized that
23:14
actually there was a fundamental you know issue with some of the key logic
23:20
that they had around their sustainability program so what he told me is that when they were when they um
23:27
were were sort of working with farmers and producers on their products they
23:33
realize that if done correctly which is sort of like people did a hundred years ago and before if you agriculture uh can
23:43
actually um sort of you know Aid in soil soil Rejuvenation rebuild ecosystems you
23:50
know Foster biodiversity you know these ideas of of regeneration and he said um
23:55
you know we were a business that was so committed to the envir environment you know but we realize that in our mission
24:01
statement in our whole perspective is about doing less harm and the fact that
24:08
harm that they're admitting they're doing harm is in their mission statement sort of rethinking in their business led
24:13
to this um you know New Vision of wor business sa home planet lots of uh you
24:20
know working with consumers to discourage and help them just consume
24:26
appropriate amounts not over consume like vast fashion things like extending life of their products around you know
24:34
sort of secondhand marketplaces repair um reuse Etc uh obviously very a lot of
24:40
Upstream um type of things too around materials and and production so so really they're looking at their entire
24:46
value chain and seeing you know how can each part of that be built in a much more um regenerative fashion so in
24:53
closing um one of the things I sort of close the book with
24:59
uh in the last section I have a variety of sort of you know policy investment you know you know Collective action
25:05
businesses and U consumer uh uh factors that can help and I focus on this idea
25:11
of sort of no silver bullets I think that so many uh Solutions are presented
25:17
as we need to do this this is the one thing that is most essential and you know given the state of the world we
25:22
need to do everything uh basically you know this is frequently presented to me
25:28
you know people are very focused on carbon markets and I and I mean I think their carbon markets are great but they're not they're part of the solution
25:35
or a variety of other policy implementations so this quote by Eisenhower I think and it it sort of
25:40
connects the Grove collaborative and Patagonia example uh where he talked about when he was organizing the D-Day
25:49
Landing uh and you know Eisenhower was not like a battlefield General he was
25:54
one that focused on the logistics and Supply um uh Etc and he and so the D-Day Landing you know
26:00
this amazing organizational feat he said you know I never um sort of try to think
26:07
make things smaller I think about making things sort bigger and by that he means you know usually when you have a big
26:13
project people say oh break it down into little pieces and you know that is a way to sort of help solve it but he thinks
26:20
that you need to actually see the larger Contours of the issue to actually see
26:26
those connections and that's in many ways how I see these challenges that we have that we need to be thinking like
26:33
you know sort of Patagonia and entering new area eras to open your mindsets to
26:38
making those different connections uh because the system we're in the sort of neoliberal system you know promotes
26:45
things like stakeholder capitalism which are solutions which are embodied within
26:51
the existing system and we need to be you know thinking very much uh beyond
26:56
that uh one of the things I'm very conscious of in general but also I know
27:02
I'm here at a school that's focused on public policy is that I focus a lot of my attention on the private sector and
27:09
business and I think that how business and policy work together it's sort of like a one two punch almost you know
27:16
we're never going to get where we need to go with just voluntary action from companies the things I've talked about
27:23
in the book are really excellent as uh sort of business case
27:29
validations uh you know Innovations to show how things work but actually need
27:34
to have them translated into mandatory um um stipulations through policy and
27:42
now that I've been sort of teaching and researching this for 20 some years now it's been amazing to see some of those things come to fruition where some of
27:49
the early you know voluntary things have now been um sort of moved into more um
27:55
you know sort of mandatory I also think we need many other things new investment
28:00
policies and approaches ownership is a huge huge issue uh particularly uh in
28:08
more developed context uh really it's it's so focused on making the rich get
28:14
richer uh and is exacerbated income inequality and there is a lot of Reform very interesting things going on and
28:19
consumers too I think you know I'll mention consumers a lot of attention gets put on consumers saying oh consumer
28:26
we need the you know the sort of millennial you know conscious consumers
28:32
are going to save us uh and I think that's just another way to deflect responsibility from uh companies where
28:38
where actually the responsibility should be I'll finish here that you know the time is now we really need to step up uh
28:46
and make change and I think that you know in combination with policy that
28:52
business uh has a tremendous uh role to play in creating Innovations uh in new
28:58
models that then can be translated into much more formal laws and it's really
29:05
essential that we do this because this idea of businesses doing this through their own voluntary
29:11
self-interest uh you know has not gotten us anywhere in 50 years and so with that
29:17
I will turn it over to you [Applause]
29:25
Matt as I mentioned at the beginning ask Chris a few questions and then we'll open it up to questions from the
29:31
audience uh I'm so glad you wrote this book Chris because uh it wraps together a bunch of ideas that I know you've been
29:37
working on for a long time and I think this Frame of how business externalizes or socialize costs is a very neat uh way
29:45
of of trying to to capture all of that um it won't be surprising to you that I agree with a lot of the ideas in your
29:51
book uh but I do think there's some real questions about the pathway to this positive Vision that you're trying to
29:56
describe and so let me ask ask a few of those and try to dig into those a little
30:01
bit so the first one is um you
30:07
really critique neoliberalism and uh I think that I'll
30:13
just read a quote uh in from the book you say the the neoliberal tactic of saying the government should address
30:19
externalities through taxes or other pricing mechanisms is nothing more than a way to avoid
30:25
responsibility um I want to dig into this a little bit because I think things like uh cap and trade and other
30:32
price-based mechanisms are pretty popular and accepted among the policy Community as the way that you solve
30:39
these kinds of issues or at least a big part of how you solve these kinds of issues and so I wonder as you think
30:44
about this alternative pathway what is the role of these kind of traditional neoliberal tools within this positive
30:52
Vision that you're trying to describe yeah good great question thank you so I think that all of those things are
30:57
totally essential uh so I'm I'm not in any way
31:02
um anti though against those you know like
31:07
cap and trade or various sort of pricing or Market based um programs for carbon
31:15
emissions or various you know ways to tax and and limit things like plastic
31:21
pollution Etc I think I think those are really essential however I think that so
31:28
often business has tried to avoid a broader responsibility that they should
31:36
have by saying like oh well consumers want this so we should give it to them
31:42
and then the bad things you know is about the you know the government should actually take care of it I think that
31:49
there should be a lot more well for instance you know there's a variety of sort of taxing uh and
31:58
programs on plastic pollution um so should should we doing doing that or
32:05
actually not allowing companies to produce things in plastic uh I think that so I'm I'm all for I mean B I mean
32:13
I think that the the only way we're going to get there is through policy uh strong policy interventions
32:21
but um but the the the the larger businesses have a lot of ways of
32:27
distracting from what actually the underlying responsibility they have is and one is by pointing the finger and
32:32
saying it's the government's responsibility so I see so it's not a problem with the kind of principle of
32:37
putting a price on these things no it's just so hard to implement that that's not really a so I think that's part
32:43
that's part of the solution certainly that's part but but it's not some magic bullet that is going to solve solve
32:50
everything I mean we see that I mean I think these systems are getting better and better but you see actually a lot of times when you put a sort of price on
32:57
carbon companies move elsewhere and that that ends up having some sort of Race To The
33:02
Bottom on environment so now you know Europe has the carbon border adjustment mechanism that is trying to address that
33:08
um as as an example but but I think I think that so I think that yes we need
33:14
we need to think about valuing and pricing uh externalities definitely but that we
33:21
can't just stop there we have to actually think more deeply about um what business responsibility is let me ask
33:28
you about some of these positive examples okay um and again you know I think these are incredible examples that
33:35
that you've pointed to in your book and um frankly what I appreciate about your book among other things is that you have
33:40
a lot of fresh examples that are not kind of rehashing the the old examples of these things um they're still small
33:46
however yes exactly um many of the companies that you mention in the book are pretty small so uh among them and
33:54
these are even maybe some of the larger ones Patagonia all Birds Seventh Generation uh Tony's chocol lonely um
34:02
are all Niche companies within their industries that have been very
34:07
successful in serving a niche customer in a very responsible regenerative right kind of way and so I was just looking at
34:14
it this morning um Patagonia sales are said to be something like $1 billion a year um but the outdoor apparel Market
34:20
is something like $35 billion so Patagonia has been at this for 50 years and they have 3% of their Market and so
34:28
as you think about making this more than a niche thing right if Patagonia is really trying to solve the end problem
34:34
of uh the damage that's done by apparel manufacturing um what is the theory of
34:41
Change by which we scale those Solutions right is it Patagonia selling 30 times as many clo clothes is it other
34:48
companies adopting what Patagonia does is it government regulation what's the what's the formula so so um yeah so
34:55
again sort of I don't think there's any sort of silver bullet uh but I would so the of the three options that
35:02
you gave the sort of implicit or somewhat explicit U theory of the book
35:09
is the government R government one uh and so you know the the idea is that so
35:17
if you look at Patagonia so they they as as just as as an example they've
35:23
actually been very active in collectively organizing in a bunch of
35:28
sectors um that you know around packaging uh is one U around
35:35
regenerative agriculture is is actually I guess yeah one that I'll say a little more about so the idea of like
35:40
regenerative you see this word all around nowadays like what what does that mean um you know that you know that
35:46
could mean anything or nothing uh Pepsi you know Pepsi is big into regenerative I don't think they have any sort of you
35:52
know way to judge that they can call it regenerative maybe they have a pig you know warming around round or something
35:58
I'm not I'm not not sure uh so so they actually been have come together with a
36:04
variety of NGS with other private sector organizations and created a standard
36:09
which many people tell me and I I I'm not an expert in agriculture so I can't is really a very rigorous and important
36:16
standard that is global uh uh now and
36:22
can be adopted similar type things by governments to
36:28
uh to hopefully diffuse that idea so in many ways the sort of connecting the
36:33
dots on the theory is not that Patagonia is going to take over the world or that
36:39
they're they're they're necessarily are going to be voluntarily adopted by I
36:44
don't know Northface or or whomever because change is of large companies is really really really hard but what I
36:51
hope is that by proving models collectively organizing to also to show
36:56
they work that we can pre we can show that these are actually solutions that
37:02
can be implemented in a policy way so that this is this is really interesting
37:07
because I think you know the the kind of accepted wisdom in the social Enterprise
37:12
Community is that social Enterprises are creating ways of doing things that they hope that companies will voluntarily
37:19
adopt and you're suggesting something different which is that if I'm a social entrepreneur uh I should actually be
37:25
designing what I'm doing in a way that's going to eventually make it possible to be adopted in regulation not as a a
37:32
voluntary I yes exactly and this and I um so for instance one one area where
37:39
I've where I've seen this uh that I think is you know the I mean I think it's going to be a very powerful thing
37:44
well time will tell but you know the EU uh recently passed the corporate
37:49
sustainability reporting directive csrd it's I think if you haven't heard about it yet it's going to be a very big deal
37:56
uh because of actually how it enforces accountability for not just EU companies
38:04
but actually it's designed in a way that it's actually going to affect basically all reasonably sized companies in the world in a very rigorous way so this is
38:14
actually built on the shoulders of a lot of private sector and NGO action around
38:22
sort of broadly speaking ESG or sustainability standard so we have you know 20 years of
38:28
experimentation refining best practices lots of things going on and
38:35
those can get adopted by um you know by the government I think that that in like
38:42
the regenerative organic is one where they're working to try to get that adopted as another
38:47
example let me turn to the question of local action so a lot of the ideas that
38:52
you develop in the book are very Global or systemic in nature which makes total
38:58
sense given the global or systemic interdependence of the kinds of issues that you're describing in the book um we
39:05
are in a center for cities and uh so I wanted to ask you a question about the
39:11
role of local action and turns out also that Chris is an expert in community
39:17
level analysis of business and Society issues um and so you know I wonder what
39:23
you see as the role of of local situated action in trying to address these
39:29
broader you know regenerative system level questions um and so if you were
39:36
giving advice to local leaders or people who aren't necessarily in a position to
39:41
try to affect these large systems um what advice would you give to them about their role in concert with the other
39:47
kinds of things you've described good question uh I guess given this is a center for cities we we we should be
39:52
thinking about this um and you really built me up as some expert on community so I should have some really really good
39:59
answer um uh I must admit that I have not thought tremendously I mean the book
Protecting nature means valuing biodiversity
14OCT2026
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
Appeals for extra money are failing.
Fundamental changes are needed to safeguard the planet for future generations.
The words of Canadian-American singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell’s 1970 environmental anthem Big Yellow Taxi will be echoing in the halls of the United Nations biodiversity conference (COP17) in Yerevan, Armenia, that begins on 19 October.
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
Till it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot.
“Nature is in freefall,” according to the Living Planet Report 2026, published on 7 October by conservation charity WWF. Between 1970 and 2022, the sizes of vertebrate wildlife populations that WWF research teams have been monitoring decreased by 73% (see go.nature.com/4zy2zxd).
Almost four years ago at COP15 in Montreal, Canada, countries agreed on targets to stop and eventually reverse biodiversity loss by 2050.
The goals included protecting 30% of land and water habitats by 2030 (also called the 30 × 30 target) and to substantially increase annual funding for conservation from public and private sources
— to at least US$30 billion for low-income nations and small island states —
by the end of the decade.
Although these goals are not currently on course to be met, official figures could be underestimating the global amount of protected land, suggests a study published on 14 October (H. M. K. O’Neill et al.
Nature doi.org/10.1038/s41586-026-1…; 2026).
The Living Planet Report notes that some species are no longer considered endangered — including the Atlantic bluefin tuna (Thunnus thynnus) and the green sea turtle (Chelonia mydas).
But if the global decline in biodiversity is to be halted, a much more fundamental change is needed: the value of natural capital and ecosystem services must be factored into nation's decision-making.
Joni Mitchell performed her environmental anthem Big Yellow Taxi at the 1970 Isle of Wight Festival, which attracted around 600,000 people.
Credit: Tony Russell/Redferns/Getty
Protecting nature means valuing biodiversity
14OCT2026
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
Appeals for extra money are failing.
Fundamental changes are needed to safeguard the planet for future generations.
The words of Canadian-American singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell’s 1970 environmental anthem Big Yellow Taxi will be echoing in the halls of the United Nations biodiversity conference (COP17) in Yerevan, Armenia, that begins on 19 October.
Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
Till it’s gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot.
“Nature is in freefall,” according to the Living Planet Report 2026, published on 7 October by conservation charity WWF. Between 1970 and 2022, the sizes of vertebrate wildlife populations that WWF research teams have been monitoring decreased by 73% (see go.nature.com/4zy2zxd).
Almost four years ago at COP15 in Montreal, Canada, countries agreed on targets to stop and eventually reverse biodiversity loss by 2050.
The goals included protecting 30% of land and water habitats by 2030 (also called the 30 × 30 target) and to substantially increase annual funding for conservation from public and private sources
— to at least US$30 billion for low-income nations and small island states —
by the end of the decade.
Although these goals are not currently on course to be met, official figures could be underestimating the global amount of protected land, suggests a study published on 14 October (H. M. K. O’Neill et al.
Nature doi.org/10.1038/s41586-026-1…; 2026).
The Living Planet Report notes that some species are no longer considered endangered — including the Atlantic bluefin tuna (Thunnus thynnus) and the green sea turtle (Chelonia mydas).
But if the global decline in biodiversity is to be halted, a much more fundamental change is needed: the value of natural capital and ecosystem services must be factored into nation's decision-making.
Joni Mitchell performed her environmental anthem Big Yellow Taxi at the 1970 Isle of Wight Festival, which attracted around 600,000 people.
Credit: Tony Russell/Redferns/Getty
Does the decline of book reading mark the end of rational thinking?
BOOK REVIEW
12OCT2026
David Adam
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
Smartphones and artificial intelligence are undermining our ability to follow a complex argument, with grave consequences.
The New Dark Ages: The End of Reading and the Dawn of a Post-Literate Society James Marriott Bodley Head (2026)
The thriller novelist Dan Brown writes books that some critics complain are for people who don’t read books.
The journalist and former rare-book seller James Marriott has now written a book for people who read books about people who don’t.
That must have been an interesting sales pitch.
What’s next — a 3.5-hour-long radio documentary about declining attention spans?
A literary cliff edge: people enjoying the written word on World Book Day in Hunan, China.
Credit: TPG/Getty
Does the decline of book reading mark the end of rational thinking?
BOOK REVIEW
12OCT2026
David Adam
nature.com/articles/d41586-0…
Smartphones and artificial intelligence are undermining our ability to follow a complex argument, with grave consequences.
The New Dark Ages: The End of Reading and the Dawn of a Post-Literate Society James Marriott Bodley Head (2026)
The thriller novelist Dan Brown writes books that some critics complain are for people who don’t read books.
The journalist and former rare-book seller James Marriott has now written a book for people who read books about people who don’t.
That must have been an interesting sales pitch.
What’s next — a 3.5-hour-long radio documentary about declining attention spans?
A literary cliff edge: people enjoying the written word on World Book Day in Hunan, China.
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