A mid 40s dude who deconstructed Mormonism and is now all f’ed up. A bit obsessed with Mormon history and Biblical scholarship.
Utah, USA
Joined June 2014
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What happens when the Bible doesn’t agree with your theology?
Apparently, you change the Bible.
Early Christians disagreed about who Jesus was and scribes altered scripture to defend their beliefs and undermine the “heretics.”
For example, the Adoptionists said that Jesus was a regular, righteous man adopted by God to be his son, which took place at his baptism.
Ehrman says that this controversy caused scribes to change the text of the account of Jesus’ baptism in Luke 3.
In most manuscripts, Luke 3:22 says, “And a voice came from heaven: ‘You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
But Codex D, some Old Latin manuscripts, and some church fathers have a different reading: “You are my Son, today I have begotten you.”
Ehrman says orthodox scribes saw the word “today,” realized that it could be used by Adoptionists, and took out the line, “today I have begotten you.” (73-79).
And there’s more…
Some Bible surprises for me after I started asking questions:
Mose, Abraham, Adam and Eve aren’t likely historical figures.
Moses didn’t write the first five books of the Bible.
Genesis has two different creation stories.
Noah’s flood story comes from older Mesopotamian traditions.
The Tower of Babel is a myth explaining different languages.
The Israelites were originally Canaanites.
Ancient Israelites believed in multiple gods. And Yahweh was originally worshipped alongside them.
Monotheism developed over centuries.
Isaiah was written by multiple authors over centuries.
Daniel’s prophecies were written after the events they describe.
Many biblical books were written and edited by multiple people and different authors than cited
Satan wasn’t originally an individual but a title.
The serpent in Eden isn’t identified as Satan.
Hell wasn’t originally a place of eternal fiery torture.
The Bible has several different ideas about what happens after death.
Original sin isn’t taught in Genesis. The garden story isn’t about Jesus at all.
The Gospels weren’t likely written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
The Gospels were written decades after Jesus died.
Mark was written first, and Matthew and Luke copied from it.
The four Gospels tell different versions of Jesus’ life and different Christology
Jesus in John’s Gospel is very different from Jesus in Mark.
The Gospels disagree on details of the crucifixion and resurrection.
Mark originally ended without Jesus appearing after his resurrection.
The woman caught in adultery story in John was added later.
Some familiar Bible verses weren’t in the earliest manuscripts.
Paul’s letters were written before the Gospels.
Paul tells us surprisingly little about Jesus’ actual life.
Only 7 of the 13 letters attributed to Paul are written by Paul.
First and Second Timothy and Titus probably weren’t written by Paul.
Some Biblical authors wrote under the names of people who were already dead.
Revelation probably wasn’t written by John the apostle.
Revelation was about Rome and the world its author lived in, not 2,000 years into the future.
Jesus and his earliest followers lived and died Jewish.
Paul and Jesus teach different ways for salvation.
Early Christians disagreed about who Jesus was.
Not all early Christians believed Jesus was God.
The Trinity isn’t explicitly taught in the Bible.
Different early Christian groups had very different beliefs about Jesus.
Paul expected Jesus to return soon.
Later Christian writers had to cope with Jesus not returning.
New Testament authors don’t always agree.
Women had leadership roles in early Christianity, including being apostles.
Old Testament prophecies applied to Jesus originally meant something else.
New Testament writers reinterpreted Old Testament scriptures to fit Jesus.
Biblical writers sometimes changed or revised earlier religious traditions.
The Bible contains conflicting teachings about laws, morality, and religious practices.
The books of the New Testament weren’t agreed upon for centuries.
Ancient Bible manuscripts contain thousands of textual differences.
The King James Bible contains verses scholars consider later additions.
The Dead Sea Scrolls show that ancient versions of biblical books weren’t always the same.
The Bible contradicts itself and wasn’t written as one book with one consistent theology.
Sources (kind of)
No. The entire list reflects mainstream positions in critical biblical scholarship. Textual composition, multiple authorship, Israelite origins from Canaanite culture, development of monotheism, Gospel sources and dating, pseudonymous letters, later additions, and diverse early Christologies are all standard conclusions from the historical-critical method. Even the historicity judgments on Adam, Abraham, and Moses align with the dominant critical view that these figures lack corroborating evidence as described.
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I used to think this was just conspiracy theory stuff with the UN.
But maybe not …
I find it very fascinating that the same apostles who were making oaths in secret societies, and who were fraternizing with Gordon Bowen also happen to be the ones espousing Great Reset Propaganda, wearing UN 2030 pins ect. Maybe it’s not even them being involved in a conspiracy. Maybe their fraternities just taught them it’s okay to morally compromise yourself for certain goals. That seems to be what you’re suggesting that it’s okay for the church to allign with objectively evil things in order to baptize more people in third world countries.
Then again maybe if Elder Ballard was taking mushrooms he wouldn’t have to rely on using remote viewers to get revelation.
Btw being a “Good Global citizen” is word for word from the UN 2030 agenda goals which Elder Ballard is pictured below wearing.
Thoughts @ldsabuse
Plato and Socrates were lucky guessers!
“Then, Cebes,” said he, “it is perfectly certain that the soul is immortal and imperishable, and our souls will exist somewhere in another world.”
~Plato's dialogue Phaedo, spoken by Socrates to his companion Cebes just before his execution.
Swedenborg too!
“When the body is no longer able to discharge its functions in the natural world, corresponding to the thoughts and affections of its spirit, which it has from the spiritual world, then man is said to die. This occurs when the breathing of the lungs and the beating of the heart cease. Yet the man does not then die, but is only separated from the bodily part which he had for use in the world; for the man himself lives. It is said that the man himself lives, because man is not man by virtue of the body, but by virtue of the spirit; for the spirit thinks in man, and thought with affection makes the man. Hence it is evident that when man dies, he only passes from one world into another.”
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Joseph Smith on the temple ordinances that he revealed .
“Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed. All must be saved on the same principles."
"The order of the house of God has been, and ever will be, the same, even after Christ comes."
Yet the LDS Church has revised temple ceremonies at least a dozen major times since 1842.
They’ve removed blood penalties, the oath of vengeance, five points of fellowship, added and removed Adam God, changed women’s obedience covenants, washing and anointing, and numerous others.
Oaks compares faith to science. Claims science changes year to year and only the Gospel as understood by the LDS Church is what’s consistent and certain.
A few thoughts:
1. The church has been as inconsistent and contradictory in its doctrine, theology and policies as much as anything else.
2. Is “Certainty” really what makes faith or spirituality?
3. Oaks is getting old. Kind of lovable, even, in his last years.
If you actually believed a Catholic would spend months acting like a fundamentalist Mormon, praising LDS doctrine and culture while criticizing its critics & calling anti Mormons evil, etc …
Then that was your first mistake and it’s your own fault you believed the guy.
Of course he wasn’t who he said he was.
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We’re all going through space on a rock worried about our work meeting on Monday morning, setting our calendar, remembering our passwords.
Reality has been happening for billions of years before we existed, yet we think it cares about us once we showed up, cares if we drink coffee or wear shoulder-covered dresses. We worry about what Mrs. Jones next door will think or if I make an extra $ or if I’m late to that meeting with my ass hole boss.
And we pretend that’s all normal. When it’s actually hilarious.
Maybe being alive was never supposed to make sense or have a purpose.
Maybe we're just the part of the universe that became conscious enough to notice how f’in weird the universe is.
I felt the spirit with this speech …
Ten million people have watched a comedian accidentally destroy the entire TED talk industry.
He filmed the talk once at TEDxNewYork in 2014 and openly admitted he had nothing to say.
Speaking coaches charge $5,000 to teach the exact tricks he used in 6 minutes to say nothing at all.
His name is Will Stephen. He is a comedian from Late Night with Seth Meyers who was invited to give a real TED talk and used it to prove the format is a costume anyone can wear.
Every TED speaker opens with a question, tells a personal story, cites a scientist, and shows a chart. Stephen did all four in six minutes with zero content.
His entire formula fits on a napkin.
Gesture with both hands. Ask the audience a question anyone can answer. Tell a mildly embarrassing story so they say aww. Point to a stranger on a slide and call them important. Flash a chart of random numbers. Wear glasses with no lenses. The audience will think you are brilliant.
That last trick alone has probably cost the public speaking coaching industry a hundred million dollars in sessions clients should have skipped.
"If you watched me on YouTube with the sound off, you would think I was a genius."
That is Will Stephen on the TED stage, three minutes into the talk he was paid to give. He wasn't lying.
Executives pay $15,000 for a keynote coach and still open with a joke the room never laughs at. Founders rehearse their pitch for weeks and still sound like Stephen at minute four, saying "wagga wah, gabba gabba" with authority.
The talk is free on YouTube. The method is written across every TED speaker's playbook for ten years.
Stephen still writes for Seth Meyers. Almost none of the ten million viewers have stopped nodding at empty slides since.
The formula is free. The willingness to actually say something before your next keynote, pitch, or townhall is the entire edge.
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