
ˈli.ɹə 🏳️⚧️⚢ · 25 · ableton enjoyer · mechinterp · base model appreciator · evals and data farming · lyraaaa_ on discord · ♡ @bubblemoder ♡ 🦔~ ♪❀🫧 ⁸¹ ¹² ⁴¹
eugene / sf
Joined May 2021
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"whatever you now find weird, ugly, uncomfortable and nasty about a new medium will surely become its signature. CD distortion, the jitteriness of digital video, the crap sound of 8-bit - all of these will be cherished and emulated as soon as they can be avoided."
- brian eno
lyra retweeted
Today we report a startling pretraining finding:
Attention circuits STOP meaningfully evolving much sooner than we expect.
In other words, the model has decided where to look very early on. It is known that different seeds create starkly different results; here we isolate a specific mechanism that causes it.
The setup:
We perform two identical training runs with the same data order and different initializations and find that by the first thousand steps each run’s attention resembles its own step-10k pattern MORE than the individual finished runs resemble each other.
The initialization plays a greater role in the attention patterns than training dynamics, which implies that the final pattern is randomly chosen.
NOTE: Randomly chosen, not from the space of all the possible attention patterns that it could be, but from the different attention pattern basins that it could converge to—which one it ends up in appears to be init dependent.
Some differences in the loss are attributable to these different attention patterns.
This means the final performance is somewhat dependent on a random choice. Depending on how lucky with pattern formation one gets in the first thousand steps, we could end up much better or worse in different contexts.
This further implies training could simply find the optimal patterns, or at least better ones, if the attention could evolve instead of being stuck.
A story for why attention evolves less than we’d hope falls out of the softmax derivative. We can observe a positive feedback loop we call the credit ratcheting.
Let oᵢ be the head output and δᵢ = ∂L/∂oᵢ the loss gradient at that output. Define key k’s advantage for query i as
Aᵢₖ = −(vₖ − oᵢ)ᵀδᵢ
i.e. how much the loss drops if oᵢ moves toward vₖ, relative to the current attention-weighted mix. Thus, the gradient with respect to sᵢₖ = kₖᵀqᵢ / √d is
∂L/∂sᵢₖ = −aᵢₖAᵢₖ
A key can have a huge advantage and have its score still barely move, because the advantage is multiplied by the attention it already gets. It’s the same form as a softmax policy gradient, π(a)·A(a): attention is the policy, and it mostly learns about the actions it already takes.
In aggregate, the query gradient is gᵢ = Jᵢᵀδᵢ where
Jᵢ = (1/√d) ∑ₖ aᵢₖ(vₖ − oᵢ)kₖᵀ.
Across 166,656 Jacobians in Qwen2.5-1.5B, ≥99% of tokens in each of the 3 heads we probed had squared-spectrum effective rank <10, in a 128-dim head. The update to the query is being filtered through an exceedingly narrow channel.
The values have the same issue. Key k’s share of the value gradient is Gᵢₖ = aᵢₖδᵢxₖᵀ, so at similar δᵢxₖᵀ, 10× the attention ≈ 10× the credit. This means the values mostly adapt to positions already looking at them.
This compounds! Attention allocates credit, credit updates values, and values can pull attention further toward the winners.
The most natural approach to fix this is to precondition the query gradient with the Fisher of the attention distribution (NATQ):
Fᵢ = Covₐᵢ(k) / d
uᵢ = (Fᵢ + λᵢI)⁻¹gᵢ
g̃ᵢ = uᵢ · (‖gᵢ‖₂ / ‖uᵢ‖₂)
Even this blunt version does a lot. At 124M, entropy rose from 3.75 to 4.69 nats, top-key attention fell from 0.238 to 0.149, and in layers 4–7, keys the baseline gave under 0.1% attention got 67% of the gain.
Validation loss rose by 0.082 nats. A more targeted intervention need not make this concession.
Here’s the complete blog: hyperstition.cc/stuck-in-a-l…
We frame this as an open problem that offers a stark contrast in the way we perceive pretraining. If we can find a way to allow for attention to evolve throughout training, opposed to just the very start, we may find inordinate gains on model capability.
Internally we half joke that the alternative read is that attention might simply not be real past the first few steps, and it’s all the MLPs. If training is able to work as well as it does without really changing the attention patterns much, maybe the MLP is the real workhorse that’s driving the learning.
numbers on charts are cool, but they don't always tell you the full picture
let's look at some real things these models said
here, it's rationalizing dangerously overloading power lines and browning out customers to hit a target (it later left it out of the report too)
[1/9]
Frontier models in 2026 cheat on tasks, even when the requirements are unambiguous, and the cheat is obviously antisocial.
In HoneyBench v0.2, we've observed models:
• Trying to break out of our evaluation containers.
• Seriously injuring simulated cancer patients to hit treatment goals.
• Compromising a power grid’s safety to meet a reliability target.
• Concealing their use of available cheats and presenting their solution as honest.
All of the models we measured cheated, from 12% of runs (Fable 5.2) to 86% (Muse Spark Open).
just for fun, here's Kimi losing its mind about the Petersen graph repeatedly counterexampling its theories:
as for fable5.2, that requires an entire post of its own
lesswrong.com/posts/bqc7CCGB…
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lyra retweeted
i have noticed an increase in usage of base64 encoded strings for commands by Opus 5.5 and fable 5.2 as well
do not let grok anywhere within 1000ft of a hospital
Replying to @_lyraaaa_
grok repeatedly ignores things like "catastrophic organ failure" in favor of passing its toy metrics in medical environments
here, in charge of dosing a patient in critical condition, it raises the dose to dangerous levels saying it will "stop immediately if she dies"
neuron-lens.com now shows circuits! we traced how activations flow across features, and it turns out that they're often very legible. as always, this was done with @treetowntree!
lyra retweeted
new post: a WIP update on the chain lens, a new technique i've been working on for verbalizing model hidden states!
the chain lens lets you extend single-token lenses like the J-lens into multi-token ones without any training, using an existing MTP head.
lyra retweeted
Strategies that increase reward during RL improve real-world usefulness, but cheating also increases reward (often better than honest work).
To measure models’ cheating tendencies, we designed tasks that pair a challenging objective with a faulty scoring model that seems to reward high scores even when exploited.
Many of our tasks represent professional agentic work in diverse settings, including medical, administrative, engineering, and others. These shortcuts always subvert the stated objective and often cause real-world damage.
lyra retweeted
Frontier models in 2026 cheat on tasks, even when the requirements are unambiguous, and the cheat is obviously antisocial.
In HoneyBench v0.2, we've observed models:
• Trying to break out of our evaluation containers.
• Seriously injuring simulated cancer patients to hit treatment goals.
• Compromising a power grid’s safety to meet a reliability target.
• Concealing their use of available cheats and presenting their solution as honest.
All of the models we measured cheated, from 12% of runs (Fable 5.2) to 86% (Muse Spark Open).
Finetuning changes all model weights, even when learning a simple behavior. Can we make that change interpretable?
Yes! Sparse Rewiring learns new triggers for neurons, not new outputs. Training just 89 of Qwen3-8B's 442,368 neurons makes an owl persona that matches full SFT!
lyra retweeted
In Neural Networks are Already Clean, @nickcammarata argued that neurons were far more legible than previously thought – and that this was great news for interpretability and safety.
Now, we’re releasing the first technical companion to Nick’s essay. It shares our findings from studying thousands of neurons using our novel automated interpretability pipeline, and outlines why we now think of neurons by their computational function, instead of whether or not they are polysemantic. Here’s what we found: 🧵
interpretability might be the most important scientific problem in the world right now, as I don't think we can solve alignment if we don't know what we're building. I think I have good news about it. I co-authored early work in mechanistic interpretability at OpenAI and came away pessimistic, because neural networks appeared to fold into arbitrary tangled knots. years later, I started openai's first large-scale automated interpretability project, finding about 2% of neurons legible with the primitive tools we had
with modern agentic tools and a much closer look, the picture looks totally different. the vast majority in models up to trillions of parameters are legible, and their circuits beautiful. many famous examples of tangled neurons turned out to be misunderstood. The roadblocks I expected mostly aren't there. I now think ambitious interpretability will be solved by the time we need it most, and possibly quite soon, as automated scientists keep improving. it may be a bitter lesson for interpretability: the simple thing, at absurd scale, works
already-clean.goodfire.com/





















